Trayvon Martin Death Investigation

Artie60438 wrote:

POTUS summed it up nicely.

I would venture to say that the majority of Black Amercans have suffered despicable indignities for no other reason than the color of their skin.

Whether it being stopped or followed by the police for no reason,followed in a store for no reason,the frightening and deadly experience that Trayvon Martin suffererd at the hands of a sociopathic monster like Z*(sic),or simply being unable to find a taxi that would stop for them.

Glad to see POTUS speaking out on these important issues.

Yep. Me too. You just know he's going to catch hell from the right for today's remarks. But as far as I'm concerned. the remarks were entirely appropriate, and necessary.

It's times like today that make me proud that I supported and voted for the guy.

happy jack wrote:

Why do you support vigilantism in this case but not others?
And why is it that you want a man who is guilty of nothing to suffer and die soon?

Those are fair questions.

happy jack wrote:

If you believe in this so strongly, do you have the guts to remedy this problem yourself?
Why do you feel the need to rely on a gangbanger to do the right thing?
If killing George Zimmerman is the right thing to do, why is it that you lack the guts to do the right thing yourself?

But these questions are just bullshit.  I'm sure there are instances when you wished ill upon someone. (think child rapist/murderer type who walks on a technicality, for example) That probably doesn't mean that you were willing to kill the person yourself and go to jail

Give it a fucking rest, Jack.

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Why do you support vigilantism in this case but not others?
And why is it that you want a man who is guilty of nothing to suffer and die soon?

Those are fair questions.

Those,or any other questions or comments tendered by him will he ignored. Questions of his that are similar or duplicated and posed by others will be treated as proxies and subsequently ignored.

And so it begins...

From NBC.

Quote :

Obama also suggested that the outcome of the case could have been different if Martin were white. "If a white male teen would have been involved in this scenario," he said, "both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different."

Really? Is that what he "suggested?"  Not if you look at his actual words...

Quote :

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else.  So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys.  But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there’s no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

Any reporting of what he said that doesn't include the fact that he was actually trying to explain why the African American community feels the way that it does about this case, is quite simply intellectually dishonest.

It takes political courage to broach topics like this in this country.
I think the points that Barack raised deserve to be discussed.  But twisting his words and quoting him out of context is not helpful at all.

Four Charts That Prove Obama’s Right About Being Black In America

Quote :

On Friday, President Obama gave a personal, emotional speech about the killing on Trayvon Martin, in which he spoke extensively on the broader issue of race in the United States.

Obama addressed the experiences of racial profiling that are all to common for Black men. “There are very few African-American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store,” Obama said. “That includes me. And there are very few African-American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me, at least before I was a senator.”

“The African-American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws,” Obama said, “everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

There’s no need to examine, anecdote by anecdote, whether Obama is right about this. It doesn’t take a single case, like the case of 17-year-old Martin, to make the President’s point; there is a lot of data already on the boooks to substantiate his claims. Here are just a few charts that make Obama’s point:

1. Justified killings of Black people under ‘Stand Your Ground.’ PBS’s Frontline made this instructive chart on the way that defendants who invoke ‘Stand Your Ground’ — the policy that allowed George Zimmerman to walk free on the night that he killed Trayvon Martin — fare. PBS explains, “The figures represent the percentage likelihood that the deaths will be found justifiable compared to white-on-white killings.” The result? A huge racial disparity of when the defense works — and when it doesn’t:

Quote :

Credit: Frontline

2. Stop-and-Frisks of young Black men. In May, the Public Advocate for New York put out a report detailing the way that the city’s controversial ‘Stop-and-Frisk policy is unevenly applied. Not only did it find that Blacks and Latinos make up, on average, 85 percent of stops under the program, but it also conveyed exactly how skewed those numbers are compared to the city’s demographics:

Quote :

Credit: New York Public Advocate Bill de Blasio

3. Drug arrests for White and Black users. The number of White drug users is about the same as the number of Black users — but you wouldn’t know it from the arrest statistics. In recent history, Black people have been four times as likely to be arrested on marijuana charges:

Quote :

Credit: ACLU

4. Death penalty for Black prisoners. In Texas, the state that accounts for the most executions in the nation, 40 percent of death row inmates are Black. That reflects a national trend; across several states that have the death penalty, Black inmates make up a hugely disproportionate number of those sentenced to death, despite Black people’s relatively small percentage of the population. But perhaps the chart that best makes the point is this, from deathpenaltyinfo.org, that shows the racial breakdown of who gets the death sentence for interracial crimes:

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

 

Quote :

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else.  

Quite true, which is why I cannot understand the disproportionate outrage between the indisputable fact that most blacks are murdered by other blacks, and this rare and random instance, in which a black teen died at the hand of a "creepy-ass cracker" in an incident wherein a fair and impartial jury rendered the decision that the "creepy-ass cracker" committed no crime.
Puzzling.

There's nothing "puzzling" about it at all.  This chart that was previously posted explains a lot...

Scorpion wrote:

Any reporting of what he said that doesn't include the fact that he was actually trying to explain why the African American community feels the way that it does about this case, is quite simply intellectually dishonest.

Scorpion,I'm curious to hear your take on the trial & verdict. Did you watch a lot or rely on news stories.

I watched a lot of the trial uninterrupted. This has to rank as the worst P* that i have ever seen in my life,bar none! Their opening statement was terrific and then it all went downhill.

They called most of Z* witnesses and as a result were limited in being able to use leading questions. They put Z*'s self serving statement into evidence which helped him to stay off the witness stand.

Their own witnesses were totally unprepared which is unforgivable. The follow up interviews I've seen with Rachel Jeantel came off much better than when she was on the stand. It was like she was a different person. Obviously the P* did not spend any time preparing her. The only good thing to come out of the trial is she ended up getting a full-ride college scholarship from a radio host.

The absolute worst though was the Medical Examiner. I thought I was watching a skit on SNL where a Sargent Schultz character from "Hogan's Heroes" was playing the role. His first words were something to the effect "I know nothing about the case" and from there it just got worse.

Then add in the sloppy and disgraceful police work of the Sanford PD. No drug test for Z*,no fingernail scrapings,etc. Evidence left in plastic bags instead of paper which compromises DNA and other evidence. Unbelievable!

Some people have said the case was fixed from the start. While I don't believe that for a minute I can totally understand their feeling. I sincerely believe that Trayvon Martin did not get a fair trial and a murderer walked free as a result.
This may help you understand why I sincerely hope that Z* gets taken out by someone or suffers something equally horrific.

If it was a white child from a well to do family that was killed,Z* would be serving  life as we speak.

The overt racism on the right is running full speed ahead....
Right Wing Blogosphere All Hopped Up on Hate Juice After Obama’s Statement

Quote :

Pumped full of paranoia


Well, I see the entire right wing blogosphere is still having a crazed orgy of overt racism today. The Zimmerman acquittal and Obama’s subsequent statement have given them a huge hit of hate juice, and it’s a little amazing how many wingnuts are out there ranting about “race war.” It’s some kind of obsessive paranoid racist fantasy, on a massive scale.

And one thing that’s definitely not helpful: when Salon.com publishes disgraceful rubbish like this (the link goes to JM Ashby’s post, by the way). It’s hard to believe an editor actually signed off on this before it hit the web; the piece by Rich Benjamin (who’s African-American) compares President Obama unfavorably to Eric Holder, and asks the poignant question:

   Some of us have an Inner Child. Others have an Inner N*gger. Is Holder the president’s conscience? Or his Inner N*gger?

(The N word is spelled out in full in the article.)

Whether you think it’s cool to publish something like that or not, and even if you think the fact that Benjamin is African-American himself gives Salon a license to publish it, there’s no denying the effect it has on right wingers.

Case in point: this gleeful post at Breitbart.com by Larry O’Connor, who surely, by now, is aware of what will inevitably happen in their comment section following a post like this (it’s their business model): SALON: IS HOLDER OBAMA’S ‘INNER NI**ER?’

Quote :

Take it away, Breitbart commenters!

 

Quote :

NI**ER PLEASE!!!

   […]

   Both aren’t worth 5hit.

   […]

   It’s obvious to all people, except the MSM, that Obama and Holder have it out for the white man. They’re joined at the hip and nothing more than a two headed snake in the grass waiting to strike. If they get the House back in 2014, the country is finished..it’s almost there now

   […]

   Well, birds of a feather flock together.

   […]

   Holder is Americas top “NI**ER”

   […]

   That would be Obummer, Holder is what was known as a House Ni**er. He is the person who keeps those slaves seeking freedom and liberty on the plantation. He keeps the masser informed on those planning an escape and ensures they are punished and whipped, killed if necessary. Holder is just like George Sores. Sores is a Jew who helped the Nazi’s. Sad isn’t it.

   […]

   Holder is Obama’s inner bowel movement. Obama and Holder are two racist turds

   […]

   That is a great statement and it avoids the n-word.

   […]

   Please don’t forget that both Holder and Obama are ‘white - blacks’ or is it ‘black - whites’, so don’t forget their ‘inner cracker’.

   […]

   Pretty soon the blacks wont want to claim them either.

   […]

   Is Holder Mulatto too?

   […]

   Now if I say ni33er, mine is deleted.

   […]

   I’ve whipped better stuff off of the bottom of my shoes than these colored boys!

   […]

   Barokeydoke is his own “inner n****r”

   […]

   Nothing “inner” about it.

   […]

   Shouldn’t that be ni**ah? Dats what Professor Jeantel said it bes new school

   […]

   Barry & Eric Americas top “Wiggers”

   […]

   They are both Ni**er’s!

   […]

   Obama is morphing into a Jim Jones for the black community. He panders to their sense of victimhood while doing everything to magnify it and exacerbate it. This assures that his abused culties cleave to him.

   This is turning very dark - very fast. We have never seen anything like it in America’s history. We watch - stunned - as Pandora’s box opens, Obama’s furies fly forth…

   […]

   To quote Forrest Gump….N****r is as n****r does.

   […]

   This is an anomaly no water melons were stolen… Can a scientist who studies this species comment? It seems like odd behavior and I was wondering if you have a theory on why no water melons were taken in this video. Truthfully I’m baffled. This is madness! (Followed by link to racist video —ed.)

   […]

   Well, given that Holder is of Barbadian descent, and that Obama is of Caucasian/East African descent (assuming he isn’t really the spawn of FMD), then one could say that having an inner ni**er is the only legitimate bloodline that either has to being “down for the cause.”

   […]

   Well, we were all thinking it.

Sybrina Fulton,Tracy Martin,the grieving parents take the high road along with national figures like Rev Al Sharpton and others,this is the racist crap you get in return from the right. Keep digging your hole deeper,wingnuts.

Artie60438 wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

Any reporting of what he said that doesn't include the fact that he was actually trying to explain why the African American community feels the way that it does about this case, is quite simply intellectually dishonest.

Scorpion,I'm curious to hear your take on the trial & verdict. Did you watch a lot or rely on news stories.

I didn't watch a whole lot of the trial, but I did read some of the live blogs during the testimony.  I don't think that there is any question that the case was poorly handled. Largely because of that,  I don't see how the jury could have come up with a different verdict.  I also think that it was a mistake from the start to charge him with second degree murder.

Artie60438 wrote:

If it was a white child from a well to do family that was killed,Z* would be serving  life as we speak.

I don't believe that the jury made their decision based upon race. It's probably more accurate to say the if Trayvon was white, he most likely wouldn't have been followed, which is what led to the altercation.      

That said, I believe that people have the right to walk down a fucking street without being stalked, and following people is not the job of some neighborhood watch dude. That's a job for the police.

Scorpion wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

If it was a white child from a well to do family that was killed,Z* would be serving  life as we speak.

I don't believe that the jury made their decision based upon race. It's probably more accurate to say the if Trayvon was white, he most likely wouldn't have been followed, which is what led to the altercation.

     
While that's true,I believe a significant factor was the Sanford police and evidence collection department's failure to do their jobs correctly. If Trayvon were white and from a well to do family I believe they would have handled things much differently.

Scorpion wrote:

That said, I believe that people have the right to walk down a fucking street without being stalked, and following people is not the job of some neighborhood watch dude. That's a job for the police.

On this we both agree

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

 .... following people is not the job of some neighborhood watch dude.

Neither is it a crime.
So, what is the job of the "neighborhood watch dude", if not to observe possibly suspicious activity?
If he is not allowed to follow and observe, how can the "neighborhood watch dude" possibly help the police locate and identify a possible suspect?

All of this is pretty fucking obvious but...

When someone sees "suspicious" behavior, they are supposed to pick up the phone and call the cops.  That's what George did here.  That was the correct response.  After that, his job was over.  He was specifically told not to try and follow the "suspect."  Yet he did it anyway.  This action led to an altercation, and an unnecessary death.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

 .... following people is not the job of some neighborhood watch dude.

Neither is it a crime.
So, what is the job of the "neighborhood watch dude", if not to observe possibly suspicious activity?
If he is not allowed to follow and observe, how can the "neighborhood watch dude" possibly help the police locate and identify a possible suspect?

All of this is pretty fucking obvious but...

When someone sees "suspicious" behavior, they are supposed to pick up the phone and call the cops.  That's what George did here.  That was the correct response.  After that, his job was over.  He was specifically told not to try and follow the "suspect."  Yet he did it anyway.  This action led to an altercation, and an unnecessary death.

No, he was not "specifically told" not to follow the suspect. I believe the words were ".... we don't need you to do that ....", and, in any event, the words came from someone who wielded no legal authority. Regardless, if a "neighborhood watch dude" does not follow a mobile suspect, how will the police know when and where to respond?
Magic?

Yeah. Well it's not like he was following a suspect fleeing from a crime scene. It was just a fucking teen walking home from the store.
I don't care how you spin it... this tragedy was totally unnecessary.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

 .... following people is not the job of some neighborhood watch dude.

Neither is it a crime.
So, what is the job of the "neighborhood watch dude", if not to observe possibly suspicious activity?
If he is not allowed to follow and observe, how can the "neighborhood watch dude" possibly help the police locate and identify a possible suspect?

All of this is pretty fucking obvious but...

When someone sees "suspicious" behavior, they are supposed to pick up the phone and call the cops.  That's what George did here.  That was the correct response.  After that, his job was over.  He was specifically told not to try and follow the "suspect."  Yet he did it anyway.  This action led to an altercation, and an unnecessary death.

No, he was not "specifically told" not to follow the suspect. I believe the words were ".... we don't need you to do that ....", and, in any event, the words came from someone who wielded no legal authority. Regardless, if a "neighborhood watch dude" does not follow a mobile suspect, how will the police know when and where to respond?
Magic?

Yeah. Well it's not like he was following a suspect fleeing from a crime scene. It was just a fucking teen walking home from the store.
I don't care how you spin it... this tragedy was totally unnecessary.

So maybe the position of "neighborhood watch dude" should be an illegal undertaking in and of itself, since all of the signs I've seen in so-called safe communities generally read 'We call the police to report suspicious activity', or something to that effect. And that is all we know for sure that Zimmerman did before the shooting - report suspicious activity to the police. And in order to report such activity, he needed to be able to tell the police where the suspect was, hence his reason for following Martin. What occurred after that, and who initiated the violence, has not been established, but Zimmerman initially was merely doing his job, and I see nothing inherently wrong with residents keeping their eyes open in order to protect their neighborhood.
Do you?

Circular discussions bore me. I've already clearly laid out my position...

Quote :

When someone sees "suspicious" behavior, they are supposed to pick up the phone and call the cops.  That's what George did here.  That was the correct response.  After that, his job was over.  He was specifically told not to try and follow the "suspect."  Yet he did it anyway.  This action led to an altercation, and an unnecessary death.

The fact is he was told not to follow Trayvon. George even said "OK" after he was told that "we don't need you to do that." Yet he followed him anyway. If he had just waited for the police to arrive, as he was supposed to do, then the whole tragedy could have been averted.

That's all I'm saying. I'm not talking about any larger points regarding Neighborhood Watch groups or anything else. I'm talking about this specific instance, and that's all I'm talking about.

'Monster' Pulls Man from Overturned Truck!!!!



http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/storynew?id=19735432

George Zimmerman Emerged From Hiding for Truck Crash Rescue

July 22, 2013

George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue someone who was trapped in an overturned truck, police said today.

Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told ABC News that Zimmerman "pulled an individual from a truck that had rolled over" at the intersection of a Florida highway last week.

Unfortunately, the Reuters article failed to address whether Zimmerman caused the crash by chasing the SUV through town. Also, no word on whether the occupants fled when they recognized the renowned vigilante for fear of being shot.







Alright, I stole this from another forum.

edge540 wrote:

Unfortunately, the Reuters article failed to address whether Zimmerman caused the crash by chasing the SUV through town. Also, no word on whether the occupants fled when they recognized the renowned vigilante for fear of being shot.

He then flew directly to England where he delivered the Royal baby.

How long before we find out that it was a stunt car and the accident was staged? Oh,and there was another person at the scene.

Meanwhile Trayvon is still dead and Z* is still a murderer,AFAIC.