Trayvon Martin Death Investigation

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

[ The point that you're missing is that Danaher most likely would still be alive today if had not been for that idiotic SYG law that encourages nutjobs like Rodriguez to run around with guns and bully people.

Laws don't kill people - people kill people.

What an ignorant statement! The SYG law clearly emboldened that nut. All you have to do is listen to his dialogue as he tries to make a case just before he he starts shooting.

Both sides rest in 'stand your ground' trial of ex-firefighter who killed teacher

Quote :

Jurors last week viewed a 22-minute video in which Rodriguez claimed he feared for his life, and acted in self defense when he shot and killed Danaher, and wounded party-goers Ricky Johnson and Marshall Stetson.

But today, prosecutors called a neighbor to the stand who poked holes in those self defense claims, and portrayed Rodriguez as trigger-happy.

Terri Hackathorn testified how Rodriguez often bragged about his arsenal of weapons and she recalled an "unusual conversation" she and Rodriguez had a couple of months before the shooting.

Hackathorn testified Rodriguez came to her home excited about a new gun he bought, and coaching her about Texas’ "stand your ground" laws.

"As long as you tell authorities you fear for your life, than you can shoot (any) son of a bi**h," Hackathorn said Rodriguez told her.

IMO,This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the SYG law clearly emboldened Rodriguez to murder an innocent man.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

IMO,This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the SYG law clearly emboldened Rodriguez to murder an innocent man.

[b]Rodriguez pulled the trigger.
The law did not.
Rodriguez has fingers.
The law does not.

I won the argument
You did not
You're still the board pinata
I am not.
Good night,troll and thanks for playing the part of village idiot.

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

IMO,This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the SYG law clearly emboldened Rodriguez to murder an innocent man.

[b]Rodriguez pulled the trigger.
The law did not.
Rodriguez has fingers.
The law does not.

I won the argument
You did not
You're still the board pinata
I am not.
Good night,troll and thanks for playing the part of village idiot.

A person such as Rodriguez, who seemed to be bound and determined to shoot someone, will find a way to do so. A person such as Rodriguez may use as his rationale the voices in his head, his unrequited love for Jodie Foster, or the misinterpretation of a Stand Your Ground law. But one way or another, for whatever twisted reason, such a person will inevitably do what he feels is his sick duty.
The law did not kill Danaher - Rodriguez, and Rodriguez alone, killed Danaher.

None of what you wrote negates Rodriguez's belief that he was legally justified in shooting Danaher as a factor in the murder. And yes, the possibility does exist that had it not been a factor, Danaher may still be alive. This isn't terribly surprising given the research cited above.

Quote :

[W]e find significant evidence that the laws increase homicides. Suggestive but inconclusive evidence indicates that castle doctrine laws increase the narrowly defined category of justifiable homicides by private citizens by 17 to 50 percent, which translates into as many as 50 additional justifiable homicides per year nationally due to castle doctrine. More significantly, we find the laws increase murder and manslaughter by a statistically significant 7 to 9 percent, which translates into an additional 500 to 700 homicides per year nationally across the states that adopted castle doctrine. Thus, by lowering the expected costs associated with using lethal force, castle doctrine laws induce more of it. This increase in homicides could be due either to the increased use of lethal force in self-defense situations, or to the escalation of violence in otherwise non-lethal conflicts. We suspect that self-defense situations are unlikely to explain all of the increase, as we also find that murder alone is increased by a statistically significant 6 to 11 percent. This is important because murder excludes non-negligent manslaughter classifications that one might think are used more frequently in self-defense cases. But regardless of how one interprets increases from various classifications, it is clear that the primary effect of strengthening self-defense law is to increase homicide.

happy jack wrote:

Why does everyone opposed to the Stand Your Ground laws seem so upset that the deaths of criminal aggressors are accounting for the increase in homicides?
That is truly baffling.[/b]

We're upset that innocent people are being murdered by the likes of Rodriguez and George Zimmerman.

happy jack wrote:

Why does everyone opposed to the Stand Your Ground laws seem so upset that the deaths of criminal aggressors are accounting for the increase in homicides?
That is truly baffling.

They wouldn't be... were it in fact happening. But it's not.

Quote :

[W]e find significant evidence that the laws increase homicides. Suggestive but inconclusive evidence indicates that castle doctrine laws increase the narrowly defined category of justifiable homicides by private citizens by 17 to 50 percent, which translates into as many as 50 additional justifiable homicides per year nationally due to castle doctrine. More significantly, we find the laws increase murder and manslaughter by a statistically significant 7 to 9 percent, which translates into an additional 500 to 700 homicides per year nationally across the states that adopted castle doctrine. Thus, by lowering the expected costs associated with using lethal force, castle doctrine laws induce more of it. This increase in homicides could be due either to the increased use of lethal force in self-defense situations, or to the escalation of violence in otherwise non-lethal conflicts. We suspect that self-defense situations are unlikely to explain all of the increase, as we also find that murder alone is increased by a statistically significant 6 to 11 percent. This is important because murder excludes non-negligent manslaughter classifications that one might think are used more frequently in self-defense cases. But regardless of how one interprets increases from various classifications, it is clear that the primary effect of strengthening self-defense law is to increase homicide.

Again, you might try actually reading the study.

Heretic wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Why does everyone opposed to the Stand Your Ground laws seem so upset that the deaths of criminal aggressors are accounting for the increase in homicides?
That is truly baffling.

They wouldn't be... were it in fact happening. But it's not.

Quote :

[W]e find significant evidence that the laws increase homicides. Suggestive but inconclusive evidence indicates that castle doctrine laws increase the narrowly defined category of justifiable homicides by private citizens by 17 to 50 percent, which translates into as many as 50 additional justifiable homicides per year nationally due to castle doctrine. More significantly, we find the laws increase murder and manslaughter by a statistically significant 7 to 9 percent, which translates into an additional 500 to 700 homicides per year nationally across the states that adopted castle doctrine. Thus, by lowering the expected costs associated with using lethal force, castle doctrine laws induce more of it. This increase in homicides could be due either to the increased use of lethal force in self-defense situations, or to the escalation of violence in otherwise non-lethal conflicts. We suspect that self-defense situations are unlikely to explain all of the increase, as we also find that murder alone is increased by a statistically significant 6 to 11 percent. This is important because murder excludes non-negligent manslaughter classifications that one might think are used more frequently in self-defense cases. But regardless of how one interprets increases from various classifications, it is clear that the primary effect of strengthening self-defense law is to increase homicide.

Again, you might try actually reading the study.

Yep. That's why I posted it. Instead of having an informed opinion, Jack seems to prefer to believe that everyone who disagrees with him is on the side of the criminals.

Hopefully, he'll take the hint this time and read the damn study.

Jury finds retired firefighter guilty in ‘stand your ground’ murder trial

Quote :

HOUSTON—A jury has found a retired Baytown firefighter guilty of murder in the killing of his neighbor in a dispute over loud music.

Closing arguments were delivered Wednesday in the murder trial of 47-year-old Raul Rodriguez.

He can now "stand his ground" in an 8 by 10 foot cell for the rest of his life.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Jury finds retired firefighter guilty in ‘stand your ground’ murder trial

Quote :

HOUSTON—A jury has found a retired Baytown firefighter guilty of murder in the killing of his neighbor in a dispute over loud music.

Closing arguments were delivered Wednesday in the murder trial of 47-year-old Raul Rodriguez.

He can now "stand his ground" in an 8 by 10 foot cell for the rest of his life.

[b]The person who committed the crime is in jail, but the law that he misinterpreted and attempted to misuse is not in jail.

This story has now gone national. This idiotic law that ignorant gun nuts worship is now under review in places like Florida

I wrote:

happy jack wrote:

The Stand Your Ground laws state pretty clearly, unambiguously, and concisely how and when a victim may legally defend himself, without forcing said victim to have to memorize and interpret mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo in an already stressful, life-or-death situation.

Any actual before and after statutes to demonstrate said "mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo" and subsequent streamlining?

BUMP

Heretic wrote:

I wrote:

happy jack wrote:

The Stand Your Ground laws state pretty clearly, unambiguously, and concisely how and when a victim may legally defend himself, without forcing said victim to have to memorize and interpret mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo in an already stressful, life-or-death situation.

Any actual before and after statutes to demonstrate said "mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo" and subsequent streamlining?

BUMP

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a response. It would require Jack to actually do some research. To me. it just seems that Jack is more interested in arguing meaningless semantic points with Artie than actually engaging in a detailed discussion of the issues.

Maybe Jack will surprise us this time, but I doubt it. If he does, then I apologize in advance.

Scorpion wrote:

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a response. It would require Jack to actually do some research.

He does have the NRA slogans down pat.

Quote :

To me. it just seems that Jack is more interested in arguing meaningless semantic points with Artie than actually engaging in a detailed discussion of the issues.

His unfulfilled dream is to actually win an argument with me. Since he can't,his default tactic is like you said,"arguing meaningless semantic points". He eventually bores me,I hit the button,and his warped logic somehow equates that with me putting my tail between my legs Ever notice that he almost always has to have the last word?

[quote="Artie60438"]

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Jury finds retired firefighter guilty in ‘stand your ground’ murder trial

Quote :

HOUSTON—A jury has found a retired Baytown firefighter guilty of murder in the killing of his neighbor in a dispute over loud music.

Closing arguments were delivered Wednesday in the murder trial of 47-year-old Raul Rodriguez.

He can now "stand his ground" in an 8 by 10 foot cell for the rest of his life.

The "idiotic law" really didn't have a whole lot of bearing on this case.

Artie60438 wrote:

This idiotic law that ignorant gun nuts worship is now under review in places like Florida

This law should definitely be reviewed. With a law like this on the books, countless thousands of violent criminals may be deprived of their right to assault innocent people.

happy jack wrote:

The "idiotic law" really didn't have a whole lot of bearing on this case.

Both the killers actions and the recent study suggest otherwise:

Quote :

Given that the laws reduce the costs associated with using violence, economic theory would predict that we would get more of it. Perhaps the most obvious form of escalation—and one most commonly cited by critics of castle doctrine law—is that conflicts or crimes that might not have otherwise turned deadly may now do so. For example, a criminal may not have intended to kill someone he was robbing until the victim attempted to use a weapon in self-defense. Alternatively, individuals involved in a fight may perceive that lethal force is legally justified in situations it was not previously, and may thus use lethal force.

Hence the increase in total homicides, not only justifiable homicides.

happy jack wrote:

With a law like this on the books, countless thousands of violent criminals may be deprived of their right to assault innocent people.

We're all still waiting for you to offer evidence that they were necessary to begin with.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Jury finds retired firefighter guilty in ‘stand your ground’ murder trial

Quote :

HOUSTON—A jury has found a retired Baytown firefighter guilty of murder in the killing of his neighbor in a dispute over loud music.

Closing arguments were delivered Wednesday in the murder trial of 47-year-old Raul Rodriguez.

He can now "stand his ground" in an 8 by 10 foot cell for the rest of his life.

[b]The "idiotic law" really didn't have a whole lot of bearing on this case.

Scorpion wrote:

To me. it just seems that Jack is more interested in arguing meaningless semantic points with Artie than actually engaging in a detailed discussion of the issues.

George Zimmerman Jailhouse Calls To Be Released At 10 a.m.

Quote :

Florida prosecutors are scheduled at 10 a.m. ET today to release audio recordings of six jailhouse phone calls that led to a perjury charge earlier this month against George Zimmerman’s wife.

Zimmerman is accused of second-degree murder in the killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. His wife, Shellie Zimmerman, was charged with perjury after prosecutors said they uncovered phone calls proving she lied to the judge about how much money she and her husband had available to pay for a bond.

These ought to be good for a few laughs. 2 criminal masterminds speaking in some sort of juvenile code. Yeah,I'm sure no one has ever tried that before. Then being too stupid or completely ignorant of the fact that their calls are being recorded.

Trayvon Martin shooter tells wife how to move around money

Quote :

In a half dozen phone calls between a locked-up George Zimmerman and his wife, the couple talk about their love for each other, their confidence in the future and how to move around money, recordings released this morning reveal.

Special Prosecutor Angela Corey this morning released audio of six phone calls between Zimmerman and his wife.

Prosecutors allege they prove that Shellie Zimmerman lied when she told a judge that the couple was broke.

The recordings reveal that Zimmerman, from his jail cell, gave his wife step-by-step instructions on how to change a password and clear security questions so that she could move money from one account to others.

Prosecutors allege the couple spoke in code to move money from an Internet PayPal account that was being flooded with donations for Zimmerman.

In the calls, Zimmerman makes repeated reference to "Peter Pan", which seems to be a code name for PayPal.

Prosecutors allege the couple had access to at least $130,000 in mid-April, just before Zimmerman was freed from the Seminole County Jail on $150,000 bond.

The couple's bank statements were also released this morning. They show numerous transfers between the PayPal account, George Zimmerman's bank account and his wife's account.

The posted transfers from PayPal to Zimmerman's account begin April 9 with two small transfers. On April 12, records show one transfer of $5,880, followed by seven transfers of $9,900.

One such transfer was posted the day before Zimmerman's April 20 bond hearing. Two more are dated April 23, the day he was released from the Seminole County jail.

On April 16, the same time prosecutors say the Zimmermans were talking in code on the phone about money transfers, records show numerous transfers out of Zimmerman's account.

Bank records show the couple was careful to keep the transfers under $10,000. Several transfers were in the amounts of $9,990 or $9,999.

Wow! Referring to Pay Pal as "Peter Pan"? Sheer genius. Btw,those transfers barely under $10,000.00 will likely get these 2 a visit over from the IRS. Hopefully they will be subject to a thorough audit from the IRS. I suggest they go back as far as they can. My sixth sense tells me that these 2 idiots weren't above under reporting their earnings in the past.

As always...wishing the Zimmermans a miserable,miserable,life. You can listen to the tapes at the link as I was unable to embed it.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

As always...wishing the Zimmermans a miserable,miserable,life.

[b]Quite mind-boggling that there are such monumental losers out there that their happiness depends upon the misery of those they don't even know.
Wow.
What a sad fucking life.

Naturally you have no comment on the gist of the article. What a surprise.
Nice to see you still carrying the water for a murderer that stalked and shot an unarmed teen.

Artie60438 wrote:

Naturally you have no comment on the gist of the article.

If either or both of them broke the law, then charge, try, and, if warranted, punish them accordingly.
What further comment would you like on the article?

Artie60438 wrote:

Nice to see you still carrying the water for a murderer that stalked and shot an unarmed teen.

Please - either explain how I am "carrying the water for a murderer that stalked and shot an unarmed teen", or stop lying and STFU.
Your choice.