Happenings in Wisconsin

happy jack wrote:

Bear in mind - if he is pulling a fast one, it's only because he's trying to get them to come back to carry out the duties they were duly elected to perform.
And if the Fleebaggers don't know enough about the rules of their own body to fall for it, then whose fault is it?[/b]

But the public doesn't support Walker. By staying away in order to get things changed since Walker clearly isn't interested in negotiations, aren't they adequately representing their constituents?

happy jack wrote:

Heretic wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Bear in mind - if he is pulling a fast one, it's only because he's trying to get them to come back to carry out the duties they were duly elected to perform.
And if the Fleebaggers don't know enough about the rules of their own body to fall for it, then whose fault is it?[/b]

But the public doesn't support Walker. By staying away in order to get things changed since Walker clearly isn't interested in negotiations, aren't they adequately representing their constituents?

No, they're not.
Their constituents do not consist solely of those who happen to support them as demonstrated by polling data.
Even if the constituents who do not support Walker hold a majority, there remains a substantial number of constituents who do support Walker. It is a disservice to that portion to deprive them of due process in whatever decision is ultimately reached.

Yeah, well then those constituents who feel somehow "disenfranchised" are perfectly within their rights to organize a recall of their Senator, or vote against them in the next election.

Did Walker run on a platform of "busting the public unions?" No, I don't think that he did. Clearly, it's in everyone's best interest to take action on the budget problem. The unions have already proposed a solution that solves the frickin' problem. It seems to me that the only "disservice" being imposed on the good people of Wisconsin is the unwillingness of the Governor to consider a plan that actually solves the budget problem.

If he continues his refusal to negotiate, it's quite likely that there will be widespread layoffs and a budget crisis that could have easily been averted. Frankly, that's not very good leadership by the Governor.

Heretic wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Is there another source which verifies the Cap Times article?

Is there a link that includes the actual wording of the bill(s) in question?

If there is, please provide it.

Thanks.

Bills can be found at the respective legislation's homepage, in this case, the Wisconsin State Assembly.

There's two bills - AB-23 and SB-19.

The Analysis by the Legislative Reference Bureau states the same for both:

Quote :

This bill prohibits DNR from requiring a municipal water system to provide continuous disinfection of the water that it provides, unless continuous disinfection is required under federal law.

Which is exactly what the bills state:

Quote :

281.17 ( (b) Notwithstanding par. (a) and s. 280.11 (1), the department may not require a municipal water system to provide continuous disinfection of the water that it provides, unless continuous disinfection is required under federal law.

Thanks Heretic. Here's another article mentioning it... Area legislators introduce bill to repeal requirement for local communitied to clean water supplies and another one GOP Lawmakers Seek to Repeal Water Disinfect Mandate. Took me about all of about 5 minutes to find those articles.

Scorpion wrote:

If he continues his refusal to negotiate, it's quite likely that there will be widespread layoffs and a budget crisis that could have easily been averted. Frankly, that's not very good leadership by the Governor.

Then why wasn't it? If it could have been "easily averted", why has it taken this long? Truth is, it could have been resolved BEFORE the Wisconsin elections. This is going to spread, like wildfire.

HEY BWG!!!!!!! MISS YOU!

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

If he continues his refusal to negotiate, it's quite likely that there will be widespread layoffs and a budget crisis that could have easily been averted. Frankly, that's not very good leadership by the Governor.

Then why wasn't it? If it could have been "easily averted", why has it taken this long?

Because Gov Walker has insisted on ending collective bargaining.

Quote :

Truth is, it could have been resolved BEFORE the Wisconsin elections.

I'm not so sure. When were their contracts up?

Quote :

This is going to spread, like wildfire.

Republicans might want to be careful of what they wish for.

Artie60438 wrote:

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

If he continues his refusal to negotiate, it's quite likely that there will be widespread layoffs and a budget crisis that could have easily been averted. Frankly, that's not very good leadership by the Governor.

Then why wasn't it? If it could have been "easily averted", why has it taken this long?

Because Gov Walker has insisted on ending collective bargaining.

Quote :

Truth is, it could have been resolved BEFORE the Wisconsin elections.

I'm not so sure. When were their contracts up?

Quote :

This is going to spread, like wildfire.

Republicans might want to be careful of what they wish for.

So, what is your solution? Do as Illinois Gov. Quinn is doing? Borrow billions of more money and raise taxes? Not too smart.

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

So, what is your solution? Do as Illinois Gov. Quinn is doing? Borrow billions of more money and raise taxes? Not too smart.

Simple....stop trying to end collective bargaining and attempting to bust the unions. No money has to be borrowed to do that.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

Yeah, well then those constituents who feel somehow "disenfranchised" are perfectly within their rights to organize a recall of their Senator, or vote against them in the next election.

If you prefer that the situation be resolved through a recall or another election, then I would argue that the Democrats should stop peeking out from behind the curtains at the Rockford Clock Tower Resort and come home to do their duty. Then, if there is a vote and the governor and the Republicans get their way, the voters who disagree with them can either attempt to recall the Republicans, or oust the Republicans in the next election. That would be a more equitable solution, as proper legislative procedure will have been followed.
Doncha think?

Yeah. Well do you mean a "proper legislative procedure" like this one?

Wisconsin Assembly Passes Anti-Union Bill in Seconds-Long Vote

Quote :

The Wisconsin state assembly passed Gov. Scott Walker's union-crushing bill after 61 hours of debate but only seconds on voting. Democrats were surprised when the vote was called, around 1 a.m., and many didn't even get a chance to vote against the legislation, Talking Points Memo's Eric Kleefeld reports. Just seconds after the vote was called, the digital vote recorder show 51 ayes and 17 nays; immediately voting was cut off, meaning 28 lawmakers didn't vote. Republicans left the room single file as Democrats chanted "Shame!"

The Republicans didn't even let the amendment process complete, and then they didn't even allow a proper vote. It was just a disgraceful display of political thuggery.

I can almost guarantee at this point that Walker will have to face a recall election as soon as it is legally possible to call one. According to Wisconsin State Law, the petition cannot be filed until January 2012.... the recall election takes place 6 weeks after the petition is certified.

http://elections.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=11827&locid=47

Quote :

Recall is an opportunity for voters to require elected officials to stand for election before the end of the official’s term. No petition for recall of an officer may be offered for filing before the expiration of one year after commencement of the term of office for which the officer is elected.

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

If he continues his refusal to negotiate, it's quite likely that there will be widespread layoffs and a budget crisis that could have easily been averted. Frankly, that's not very good leadership by the Governor.

Then why wasn't it? If it could have been "easily averted", why has it taken this long? Truth is, it could have been resolved BEFORE the Wisconsin elections. This is going to spread, like wildfire.

Yeah, well I suggest that you do a little reading and brush up a bit on the facts... because your comments are simply incorrect. Here's an article that can help you get up to speed...

Facts overshadowed in debate over union bill

Quote :

The budget as it stands now is balanced, and Walker is under no legal obligation to make changes. But by mid-summer, the state could come up short on cash to pay its bills, largely because of a projected $169 million shortfall in its Medicaid program.

Walker's plan comes up with the money for this year by refinancing debt to save $165 million and forcing state employees to pay for half the cost of their pensions and twice their current health care premiums. That is equivalent to an 8 percent pay cut.

Those increases in benefit contributions would raise $30 million by July and $300 million over the next two years.

Again, the unions have already agreed to the proposed cuts. The concessions already agreed to, plus the refinancing of the debt that Walker has proposed, takes care of the budget "crisis."

"Truth is," this is solely about busting up the public unions.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

Yeah. Well do you mean a "proper legislative procedure" like this one?

Wisconsin Assembly Passes Anti-Union Bill in Seconds-Long Vote

Is that somehow less proper than hiding in another state to avoid a vote?

Yeah, well IMHO, in this case, it is.... The Democrats are doing what their constituents want. They are dealing with a Governor who refuses to deal with this situation in good faith. They are not just trying to "avoid a vote," They are trying to prevent a ruthless Governor and his goons in the Senate from "ruling by decree."

What part of "the unions have already agreed to the concessions needed to balance the budget" don't you understand? All the Governor needs to do to end this is to drop the union busting elements of the budget bill.

Why won't the Governor agree to a solution that solves the budget crisis? He's already won the necessary concessions from the unions. But for some reason, he insists on "running up the score." What the hell is that all about, Jack?

It's really entertaining watching the Tea Party, after decrying the government as evil, socialist, etc., are now intent on destroying unions, the one thing that would protect workers from an out of control government.

Heretic wrote:

It's really entertaining watching the Tea Party, after decrying the government as evil, socialist, etc., are now intent on destroying unions, the one thing that would protect workers from an out of control government.

Then you agree, our government is out of control?

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

Heretic wrote:

It's really entertaining watching the Tea Party, after decrying the government as evil, socialist, etc., are now intent on destroying unions, the one thing that would protect workers from an out of control government.

Then you agree, our government is out of control?

No. I was referring to the Tea Party perception of government: some big, dangerous, socialist thing out to kill grandma and Jesus, too; certainly something that would have no problem exploiting it's workers. Yet there they are, mindlessly cheering the destruction of one of their safeguards...

happy jack wrote:

If the government were out to kill Grandma and Jesus, how do you suppose a public employees' union would safeguard against that?

No idea.

BigWhiteGuy wrote:

Heretic wrote:

It's really entertaining watching the Tea Party, after decrying the government as evil, socialist, etc., are now intent on destroying unions, the one thing that would protect workers from an out of control government.

Then you agree, our government is out of control?

One thing is certain - the current government in Wisconsin is out of control. Of course, it's extremely likely that Walker will be recalled by the voters of Wisconsin. But as pointed out earlier, that can't happen until next year.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

One thing is certain - the current government in Wisconsin is out of control.

Yeah.
And part of it is out of the state.

It's the only leverage that the Democrats have in this dispute. It is, in effect, nothing more than a filibuster.