Abortion

It's the mother's tissue.  It's perfectly legal and done by a number of medical organizations as it has for decades, and has led to advancements in medical technology, treatment, and understanding that has ultimately saved lives.

Heretic wrote:

It's the mother's tissue.  It's perfectly legal and done by a number of medical organizations as it has for decades, and has led to advancements in medical technology, treatment, and understanding that has ultimately saved lives.

Thanks for pointing that out,Heretic.

Now as to the actual disposal of dead fetuses....Well it turns out that 2012 POTUS candidate Mittens Romney was invested in a firm that did exactly that. Who knew that disposal of dead fetuses was so profitable
Stericycle Controversy: Mitt Romney Invested In Medical-Waste Firm That Disposed Of Aborted Fetuses, Files Show

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421352/planned-parenthood-body-parts

In a now-infamous video, Nucatola discusses — over lunch in a Los Angeles restaurant — how Planned Parenthood facilitates trafficking in fetal organs and tissue. She discusses prices and confesses that Planned Parenthood’s doctors are happy to alter care in order to further the organization’s organ harvesting, for example using ultrasound where they ordinarily wouldn’t, in order to prevent damage to valuable organs. In her own words: So then you’re just kind of cognizant of where you put your graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that, you know, we’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m going to basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact. And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to change the presentation so that it’s not vertex, because when it’s vertex presentation, you never have enough dilation at the beginning of the case, unless you have real, huge amount of dilation to deliver an intact calvarium. “Calvarium” is the sterile way of saying “head.” “Vertex presentation” means head-first delivery, i.e. the normal presentation. What she’s talking about here is repositioning the baby in the womb to enable more effective organ harvesting.

Planned Parenthood CEO Cecile Richards is the daughter of the late Texas governor Ann Richards, whose dedication to the cause of dismembering unborn children was absolute. Richards says that Planned Parenthood regrets the “tone” of Nucatola’s lunch-table conversation. But that blasé tone is not alien to the organization: A former Planned Parenthood clinic director tells of being mystified that in her clinic various keypads and passwords were set to 2229 — “Spells out ‘baby,’” a staffer helpfully informed her. The garbage truck that hauled away the clinic’s “products of conception” — human scraps — was mockingly referred to by staffers as “the nursery.”



But that's all fine and dandy, because ....

Heretic wrote:

….   It's perfectly legal ….

.... which makes it all that much more wonderful!!!!








http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/21/new-video-shows-another-planned-parenthood-doctor-haggling-price-of-baby-body-parts/

At the end of the video, like Nucatola, Gatter talks about changing the abortion technique to get intact specimens, changing from a rather violent suction method that would destroy tissue to what she calls an IPAS, which is a reference to a nonprofit company that makes and distributes “manual vacuum aspirators” which would be a less harmful way to get at the internal organs. She said there would be protocol issues with the patient but that she saw no problem with it. She calls it a “less crunchy” way to get intact organs.



New!!!!
IPAS-harvested fetal organs!!!!
All of the taste, none of the crunch!!!!
Try ‘em today!!!!

Heretic wrote:

….   It's perfectly legal ….

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-largest-abortion-provider-god-bless-you_719216.html

"Thank you, Josef Mengele Planned Parenthood. God bless you."

- Barack Obama

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-campaign-of-deception-against-planned-parenthood.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

The Campaign of Deception Against Planned Parenthood
By THE EDITORIAL BOARDJULY 22, 2015


A hidden-camera video released last week purported to show that Planned Parenthood illegally sells tissue from aborted fetuses. It shows nothing of the sort. But it is the latest in a series of unrelenting attacks on Planned Parenthood, which offers health care services to millions of people every year. The politicians howling to defund Planned Parenthood care nothing about the truth here, being perfectly willing to undermine women’s reproductive rights any way they can.



Talk about missing the point - intentionally.
The legality or illegality of the acts in question are being held up by the media as the main reason that people are so disturbed by the release of these videos, but that is nothing but a huge red herring.
The reason most people are repulsed by the women in the videos is because these women are, quite frankly, repulsive.
It’s really no more complicated than that, New York Times.


………

Everything You Need To Know About The Anti-Abortion Groups Trying To Discredit Planned Parenthood

Quote :

They’re infamous for heavily edited videos designed to mislead viewers.

The Center for Medical Progress’ investigation into Planned Parenthood is being led by David Daleiden, an activist who used to work at a different organization named Live Action.

Live Action, a group founded by leading abortion opponent Lila Rose when she was just 15 years old, has become infamous for conducting undercover “stings” designed to discredit Planned Parenthood. Live Action typically releases videos that have been heavily edited to cast abortion providers in an unflattering light; however, upon further scrutiny, their claims that Planned Parenthood is breaking the law don’t hold up.

For instance, Rose has previously claimed that she has evidence that Planned Parenthood employees cover up sex trafficking, lie about providing mammograms, and profit off of abortions — allegations that cannot be backed up with evidence.

The recent videos are no exception. Though abortion opponents say they provide proof that Planned Parenthood is breaking federal laws by selling organs, fetal tissue donation has in fact been legal for decades. They’re also edited to appear more nefarious; in the full transcript of the first video, for instance, Nucatola says several times that the organization is not “selling” tissue, but rather being compensated for the cost of transporting the donations. “Nobody should be ‘selling’ tissue. That’s just not the goal here,” she says at one point.

Lila Rose’s work is inspired by James O’Keefe, another conservative activist who’s become infamous for releasing misleading undercover videos, which have been criticized by law enforcement officials for their “highly selective editing of reality.”

Quote :

They may have broken the law while recording their sting videos.

MSNBC’s Irin Carmon reports that it’s unclear whether the Center for Medical Progress’ video stings were legal in the first place. They were recorded in California, where state law requires all parties to consent to a recording — but the Planned Parenthood employees were unaware that they were being filmed, and didn’t realize they were speaking with abortion opponents posing as buyers from a biological company.

Planned Parenthood’s legal counsel agrees, suggesting in their letter to Congress that activists like Daleiden have been illegally filming inside their clinics for years. The letter also notes that Daleiden may have gained access to clinics by using a falsified California driver’s license.

On Monday, a statement on the Center for Medical Progress website said the group “follows all applicable laws in the course of our investigative journalism work.”

Indiana clears Planned Parenthood of wrongdoing after videos


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana on Thursday cleared Planned Parenthood facilities that perform abortions in the state of any wrongdoing in the handling of fetal tissue.

Gov. Mike Pence, a Republican, on July 16 ordered an investigation of Planned Parenthood facilities in Indianapolis, Bloomington and Merrillville to see if organs from aborted fetuses were being sold. He was among a number of conservative lawmakers around the country who have called for investigations after an anti-abortion group circulated a video it made secretly showing some of its national officials discussing how they obtain organs from aborted fetuses for research. Planned Parenthood, the nation's largest provider of abortions, has said its donations of fetal tissue for research are legal.

The Indiana Department of Health said in a statement Thursday that an investigation found no evidence of any laws being broken. Health department inspectors investigated the Indiana facilities on July 21.

Letters from the health department to the three Indiana facilities dated Tuesday and released to the media by Planned Parenthood said the agency had completed its investigation into the Planned Parenthood facilities that perform abortions in Indiana. The letters said the agency was "unable to find any non-compliance with state regulations. Therefore, no deficiencies were cited." The letters say the complaint is closed.

The state has the authority to license and regulate abortion clinics and to inspect them, the Health Department said. Federal law prohibits the buying and selling of human body parts or trafficking in tissue from an aborted fetus.

"We are pleased this unfounded complaint is resolved," said Betty Cockrum, president of Planned Parenthood of Indiana and Kentucky.

She said the Indiana facilities don't participate in tissue donations.

Planned Parenthood, which gets more than $500 million of its $1.3 billion annual budget from federal and state programs, has been under fire since the release of videos by the anti-abortion group Center for Medical Progress. Pence said when he ordered the investigation that Indiana residents should be troubled by the allegations after the video went viral.

Planned Parenthood has asked the government's top health scientists at the National Institutes of Health to convene a panel of independent experts to study the issues surrounding the little-known branch of medicine.

Cockrum said Planned Parenthood of Indiana and Kentucky holds "compliance with all laws and regulations as an imperative."

happy jack wrote:

I wonder if people would be a little more upset about this if a lion cub was crushed, dismembered, and sold for parts.
Based upon mainstream media coverage, I find it easy to believe that that would be the case.

Probably would be... because a lion "cub" is a baby lion, it's not a lion fetus.

That's the important distinction that you just don't get.  A fetus that isn't viable is not a baby.  I understand that you believe that it is a baby, and you view all of this through that "lens."

happy jack wrote:

As I stated earlier: the fact that they may be doing something that is legal is scarier than if what they were doing was illegal.

Nah, what is even more scarier is the fact that right wing extremists don't believe in science. This type of research has been going on since the 30's, it's nothing new.

What you need to know about how fetal tissue is used for research
USA TODAY NETWORK AP July 29, 2015

NEW YORK (AP) — Controversy over Planned Parenthood's supplying fetal tissue for research has focused attention on a little-discussed aspect of science.

Some of the organization's affiliates, in fewer than five states, provide the tissue, according to Planned Parenthood. An anti-abortion group says the group is illegally making a profit from that, and has released covertly recorded videos about it.

Planned Parenthood says it receives only reimbursements for costs of providing tissue donated by women, and that it has done nothing illegal or improper.

The controversy led to a Senate bill to cut off federal funding for the organization. Republican leaders say the measure will be voted on before the August recess.

Some basic facts about fetal tissue in research:

What is fetal tissue used for?

Tissue from elective abortions and miscarriages is used for a wide variety of purposes. Scientists who want to regenerate organs and tissues may use it to learn how the human body makes them in the first place. Others look for defects in early development that can cause disease or miscarriage, or study normal development, which can guide therapeutic strategies. The tissue is also used to learn how medicines or toxins affect a fetus.

Is using fetal tissue a new idea?

Hardly. Scientists have worked with it since the 1930s. The 1954 Nobel Prize in medicine was awarded for work with fetal tissue that led to developing a vaccine against polio. The National Institutes of Health spent $76 million on human fetal tissue research in fiscal 2014.

What diseases are being studied today?

AIDS and muscular dystrophy, for example. Some experimental treatments for spinal cord injury and macular degeneration involve transplanting fetal cells into patients. And European researchers recently began a study of putting fetal tissue into patients' brains to treat Parkinson's disease, a strategy that has had mixed results in the past.

How is the tissue provided?

It comes from hospitals and abortion clinics. Sometimes it goes directly to researchers, and in other cases it is handled by nonprofit organizations or companies that supply researchers. The groups or companies can be reimbursed for expenses associated with costs like processing and storing the tissue, federal law says.

Does the woman have to agree to using the tissue for research?

Yes, she has to give consent. And the matter can't be raised until after she has decided to have an abortion.

Can't researchers just use stem cells instead?

Stem cells, including those obtained with adult donors, can develop into a variety of tissues in the lab. The European researchers in the Parkinson's study and others hope to learn enough to use them someday for transplant tissue. Experts say stem cells have already substituted for fetal tissue for some purposes, but that scientists still need fetal tissue to learn basic information about how organs form, or help them simulate certain diseases in the test tube.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/29/fetal-tissue-research-planned-parenthood/30839625/

edge540 wrote:

   

How is the tissue provided?

How is the tissue provided?
Like this:



“So then you’re just kind of cognizant of where you put your graspers, you try to intentionally go above and below the thorax, so that, you know, we’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m going to basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact. And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to change the presentation so that it’s not vertex, because when it’s vertex presentation, you never have enough dilation at the beginning of the case, unless you have real, huge amount of dilation to deliver an intact calvarium.”

“Calvarium” is the sterile way of saying “head.”



And if you close your eyes and squint real hard, you might even be able to convince yourself that this horror is happening to a fetus, not a baby.
That euphemism, I think, should make you feel much better about yourself while you advocate for this procedure.

edge540 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

As I stated earlier: the fact that they may be doing something that is legal is scarier than if what they were doing was illegal.

Nah, what is even more scarier is the fact that right wing extremists don't believe in science. This type of research has been going on since the 30's, it's nothing new.

It's no different than harvesting body parts from an organ donor. As Scorpion pointed out earlier these fetuses are not "viable" just like the organ donors who,for all intents and purposes,have perished but are still marginally alive.

Artie60438 wrote:

It's no different than harvesting body parts from an organ donor. As Scorpion pointed out earlier these fetuses are not "viable" just like the organ donors who,for all intents and purposes,have perished but are still marginally alive.

Yeah. Well I don't agree that taking fetal tissue for research is akin to "organ donation" at all. IMHO, it is definitely not the same as "harvesting body parts from an organ donor" for transplantation into someone else.

The reason that I mentioned viability is because whether a fetus is viable or not is of paramount importance.

That said, if Planned Parenthood or any other outfit is changing their procedures in ways that threaten a woman's safety, in an attempt to recover more intact fetal tissue, I have a real problem with that...

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

I wonder if people would be a little more upset about this if a lion cub was crushed, dismembered, and sold for parts.
Based upon mainstream media coverage, I find it easy to believe that that would be the case.

Probably would be... because a lion "cub" is a baby lion, it's not a lion fetus.

That's the important distinction that you just don't get.  A fetus that isn't viable is not a baby.  I understand that you believe that it is a baby, and you view all of this through that "lens."

http://www.nationalreview.com/cecil-the-lion-and-cecile-richards-no-humaneness-for-humans

Cecil and Cecile: Humaneness, but Not for the Human

by KEVIN D. WILLIAMSON August 2, 2015 4:00 AM

Cecil the lion gave the Left a great gift: The death of the African apex predator at the hands of Dr. Walter Palmer, an American dentist, has driven the North American apex predator — Cecile Richards of Planned Parenthood — off the front page for a moment. Not all harvesting is equal in the eyes of the American chattering class. Palmer is, if the press accounts of his activities are accurate, an incompetent and unethical hunter — not really a hunter at all, but a poacher. Hunting predators over bait is not sporting; in many places, crossbow hunting is disallowed or restricted to persons with disabilities that prevent them from operating ordinary archery equipment; luring park animals partly accustomed to human interactions into hunting areas is despicable. Palmer had previously pleaded guilty to charges relating to the poaching of a black bear. As a lion hunter, Palmer’s ethical violations were compounded by incompetence: Palmer’s first shot wounded the lion but failed to kill it. At that point, it was incumbent upon him to immediately pursue the lion and kill him. Palmer took nearly two days to do so. Of course stalking a wounded lion in the bush is a dicey proposition — that’s why they call it dangerous game. Hunting African game is an unpredictable business: Cape buffalo hunters who have put down a dozen of the beasts with one rifle shot each occasionally will encounter a specimen that survives the first shot, and a second, and a third. . . . There are cases in which a dozen properly placed shots fail to fell the animal. But those hunters, if they are competent and ethical, pursue the quarry until it is down — and Cape buffalo, despite their herbivorous habits, are generally held to be considerably more dangerous than lions. On the subject of Cape buffalo, the famous African hunter Robert Ruark offered one of my all-time favorite observations. You can point a rifle at a Cape buffalo, and he “looks at you like you owe him money.” Anybody with sufficiently deep pockets can go on a hunt, but that doesn’t make him a hunter. There probably isn’t a U.S. law under which to charge Dr. Palmer. The African lion is not listed as an endangered species, though perhaps it should be. But the federal code is vast, and the Justice Department is creative. Perhaps Cecil’s civil rights were violated. There is talk of extraditing Palmer to Zimbabwe, but there isn’t really a Zimbabwean law under which to charge him, either, inasmuch as there is no law, properly understood, in Zimbabwe, only the whimsy of dictator Robert Mugabe, who has been running Zimbabwe since I was carrying a Star Wars lunchbox to the second grade. But of course we are not going to be talking about that. American public discourse is a mile wide and an inch deep, and it operates almost exclusively in generalities, the broader the better. For the moment, the conversation, such as it is, is dominated by the infantile cry: “Lions nice! Hunters bad!” We might take this moment to remind ourselves that Zimbabwe is a psychotic state with failed institutions and that the Mugabe style is, unhappily, not restricted to Mugabe or to Zimbabwe. We might consider that there are ethical and unethical modes of big-game hunting, and we might, if we were so inclined, meditate on the fact that hunters have for generations played a critical role in the conservation of wildlife and habitat. If we were feeling philosophical, we might even think for a moment about the fact that those who would ban hunting out of awe for nature and the natural order in fact pervert that order by denying man’s unique role in it, and wonder whether a man who has never killed his own breakfast, even if it’s only a perch, can really understand that. Instead, we’re treated to the spectacle of Twitter mobs composed of people who have never thought about the condition of lions, or the condition of Robert Mugabe’s Zimbabwe, emoting with great satisfaction for a minute and a half until they move on to the next thing. Pretty lion, mean dentist. Mean, mean dentist. But Cecile Richards’s butchery, those dishes full of tiny hands and feet and hearts and brains, the blasé negotiations about price, “I want a Lamborghini” and all the rest of that? Oh, there’s context, don’t you know.

Mike Huckabee: 10-year-old rape victim should be forced to carry rapist’s baby

Quote :

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee argued over the weekend that a 10-year-old girl should have been forced to carry her pregnancy to term after she was raped.

During an interview on Sunday, CNN host Dana Bash asked the GOP candidate if he would refuse an abortion to a 10-year-old girl in Paraguay, who was allegedly raped by her stepfather.

“Creating one problem that is horrible — let nobody be misled, a 10-year-old girl being raped is horrible — but does it solve a problem by taking the life of an innocent child?” Huckabee said. “And that’s really the issue.”

Yeah,so let's create 2 problems....ruin a 10 yr child's life and force her to have a baby she doesn't want
and give birth to a child nobody wants.

Perfect question for the next clown car debate. Gov Huckleberry you said......" " Who on the stage agrees with him?

Artie60438 wrote:

Mike Huckabee: 10-year-old rape victim should be forced to carry rapist’s baby

Quote :

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee argued over the weekend that a 10-year-old girl should have been forced to carry her pregnancy to term after she was raped.

During an interview on Sunday, CNN host Dana Bash asked the GOP candidate if he would refuse an abortion to a 10-year-old girl in Paraguay, who was allegedly raped by her stepfather.

“Creating one problem that is horrible — let nobody be misled, a 10-year-old girl being raped is horrible — but does it solve a problem by taking the life of an innocent child?” Huckabee said. “And that’s really the issue.”

Yeah,so let's create 2 problems....ruin a 10 yr child's life and force her to have a baby she doesn't want
and give birth to a child nobody wants.

Donald Trump read this post, and he said that you seemed so angry that, “There was blood coming out of your … wherever.”

Scorpion wrote:

 
That's the important distinction that you just don't get.  A fetus that isn't viable is not a baby.  I understand that you believe that it is a baby, and you view all of this through that "lens."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3203983/Planned-Parenthood-whilstleblower-tells-doctor-showed-aborted-fetus-s-heart-beating-told-cut-head-open-remove-brain.html

………

In the most distressing sequence, O'Donnell speaks about one of the medics calling her over to show her a recently aborted fetus.
She says: 'She calls me in and says 'hey Holly I want you to come over here I want you to see this, this is kind of neat.
'So I come over and the moment I see it I'm just flabbergasted. This is the most gestated fetus and closest thing to a baby I have seen.
'She's like, I want to show you something, so she grabs one of her instruments and she just taps the heart and it just starts beating.
'I'm sitting here and its heart is beating and I don't know what to think.
'She asks me "you know why that's happening?", and I know why it's happening, because the electrical current, the nodes are still firing.
'I don't know whether that constitutes whether it's dead or whether it's alive.'
While doctors routinely report corpses twitching as nerve synapses fire in the moments after death, the process of dying starts with a loss of heartbeat - known as cardiopulmonary death.
Doctors typically only pronounce a patient dead once there has been a loss of sustained heartbeat, though it is not clear in this case whether the heartbeat was sustained.
O'Donnell continues: 'It had a face, it was not all torn up, its nose was very pronounced it had eye-lids its mouth was pronounced.
'Since the fetus was so intact she said "this looks like a really good fetus, we can procure a lot from this, we're going to procure brain".
O'Donnell said the doctor then began cutting at the bottom of the fetus's chin with a pair of scissors and cut up to roughly the bottom of its nose before asking her to take over.
Despite not wanting to take part, O'Donnell said she agreed and helped to cut open the head before the brain was taken out.
She then said she was asked to throw the fetus away but because of its size, she found it difficult to fit into the bin.
She says she was forced to push each of the fetus's feet into the contained before closing the lid, saying it was 'the hardest thing I had to do while working there'.
She added: 'I remember holding that baby in my hands when nobody else was looking and just crying and putting it back in the container.'

………



Just sayin'.

Yeah. Well this account doesn't sound "kosher" to me.  If this actually happened, it sure sounds as if this involved a fetus that was viable.  If that's the case, this should be investigated and prosecuted.

Just in case anyone was wondering whose side Satan takes in the abortion debate ....



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/satanists-drown-women-for-planned-parenthood/article/2570695



Satan worshipers drown women with milk in Planned Parenthood counter-protest

By BARBARA BOLAND • 8/23/15 3:53 PM

Satan worshipers launched a counter-protest against pro-lifers outside the Detroit and Ferndale, Michigan Planned Parenthood locations Saturday.

………



http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422999/satanist-abortion-advocates

………

The Satanists adhere to such edifying statements of principle as “Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!” and “Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!” They also declare that man is “just another animal.” It’s hard to imagine a more appropriate set of doctrines for the rutting life of the sexual revolution, where restraint is evil, physical experience is king, and people are simply sentient mammals trying to get the best out of life. A baby is thus no more sacred — and often less — than any other animal. Just ask Cecil the Lion.
While the vast, vast majority of abortion-rights supporters don’t identify with Satanists and would recoil from comparison with the Church of Satan, prominent Satanist involvement in the abortion debate does have a clarifying effect. A person who is willing to kill another person for the sake of preserving their own prosperity or emotional health is declaring that their life is supreme — their existence is at the center of all things. This is the core of Satanist theology. So when Satanists declare their creeds, they strike uncomfortably close to the rotten core of the abortion-rights regime. Moreover, the secular Left truly has been radicalized outside the American mainstream if it’s willing to gleefully identify with the worshipers of Baphomet. It’s all fun and games until the public starts to identify a movement by its more prominent public supporters, of course. For years abortion-rights advocates have delighted in blasphemy, doing their dead-level best to shock sidewalk counselors, nuns, priests, and other pro-life advocates. For years their horrible behavior has largely been hidden from public view, as the media shamelessly covers for their obscenity. It’s a new era, however, and as the Center for Medical Progress demonstrates with a new video every week, the pro-life movement no longer needs the mainstream media to share its message — or to expose its opponents. Good luck pouring that milk, Satanists.

happy jack wrote:

Just in case anyone was wondering whose side Satan takes in the abortion debate ....

No, I wasn't wondering, nor do I care.

And seriously... what the hell does the killing of Cecil have to do with any of this?