Voter Identification

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

Yeah. Well I imagine that's because blacks are more likely to be poor, in terms of percentage. I don't think that there was any intent to imply that blacks are somehow "less capable" than whites. if that's what you're getting at...
Since photo ID laws adversely impact the poor, and blacks are more likely to be poor, then the photo ID laws will disproportionately affect black people.

Then why not just say ‘poor’?
Why the need to impute some form of non-existent racism to the motives of those involved (not you - the authors of the article)?

Scorpion wrote:

I don't think that there was any intent to imply that blacks are somehow "less capable" than whites. if that's what you're getting at...

No, that’s not what I’m getting at.
I’m wondering what they are getting at, and why they felt the need to whip out the race card for no apparent reason.

Because. like I explained, since photo ID laws adversely impact the poor, and blacks are more likely to be poor, then the photo ID laws will disproportionately affect black people. The writer is just quantifying that effect.

IMHO, there is no implication of "racism" and it's not "playing the race card" to point out basic facts.

I think that the "motives of those involved" are even simpler to understand. But it's not about racism. It's about denying the vote to as many Democratic constituencies as possible. If black people were more likely to vote Republican, there would be no need for any of these "laws."

The "appearance" of racism? You have got to be kidding me. The fact that the proposed laws will disproportionately impact black people is a perfectly legitimate point.

And BTW - Everyone should care when an attempt is made to take away voting rights from people. That's what the "process under discussion" is all about.

Brought to you by the same people who want to destroy unions....
Conservative Corporate Advocacy Group ALEC Behind Voter Disenfranchisement Efforts
The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a conservative organization linked to corporate and right-wing donors, including the billionaire Koch brothers, has drafted and distributed model legislation, obtained by Campus Progress, that appears to be the inspiration for bills proposed by state legislators this year and promoted by Tea Party activists, bills that would limit access of young people to vote.

ALEC describes itself as a “nonpartisan membership association for conservative state lawmakers who shared a common belief in limited government, free markets, federalism, and individual liberty.”

Artie60438 wrote:

Brought to you by the same people who want to destroy unions....
Conservative Corporate Advocacy Group ALEC Behind Voter Disenfranchisement Efforts

Hey, thanks for the link. I especially liked the quote from the president of the College Republicans from Dartmouth...

Quote :

Rather than seeking to persuade young voters on the issues, these conservatives are aiming to restrict access to voting through draconian measures. Their efforts are raising the ire of College Democrats and College Republicans alike. The president of the College Republicans at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire, Richard Sunderland, tells Campus Progress that the GOP should focus on bringing “younger students into the fold as Republicans, as opposed to this, which seems like more of an attack.”

Sunderland adds that while he is a Republican, “The way I see the lines here, is we are students and first and foremost. As students, this is attacking our right to vote.”

It's really good to see students closing ranks on this. The targeted attack on student voters is really disgusting and just plain malevolent.

It's good to see that Rock the Vote is all over this issue as well...

http://www.rockthevote.com/campaigns/suppression/

Quote :

YOU ARE GETTING SCREWED. There is a war on voting going on and your rights are under attack. Politicians are trying to block young people from voting with shady new photo ID and residency laws. They are getting rid of things that make it easier for people to vote, like Election Day registration, early voting and pre-registration laws.

T IS TIME TO STOP THE BULLS**T. In America, we rock the vote, we don't block the vote. Join our campaign. We'll send you updates and get you plugged into the action in your state.

At the very least, I'm going to send them some money. Cuz I gotta tell ya, I'm not about to sit idly by while Republicans launch a full scale assault on student voting rights.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

The "appearance" of racism? You have got to be kidding me. The fact that the proposed laws will disproportionately impact black people is a perfectly legitimate point.

A couple of posts back you said the motives didn't involve racism.
What has changed since then?

My position hasn't changed at all. I don't think it's about racism. But again, the fact that the proposed laws will disproportionately impact black people is undeniable. Why are the Republicans targeting black voters? Because they tend to vote Democratic, that's why. Like I said, if black voters tended to vote Republican, then we wouldn't be seeing these extraordinary efforts to keep them from voting.

It's really not much different from the attack on college students. It's clear to me that the Republicans want to eliminate as many Democratic voting constituencies as possible.

What the hell do you think it's about?

What is the justification for requiring a photo ID?

Why do you think it should be required?

The answers to these questions are significant because from what I've read, 11 percent of the eligible population, around 21 million people, don't have a photo ID.

In light of the fact that these people won't be allowed to vote because they don't have a photo ID, there really needs to be a better reason than "I'm not insisting that anyone do any more than what I am willing to do." What you are "willing to do" is pull your photo ID from your wallet. That's really not an option for those who don't have one in their wallet, is it?

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

Why are the Republicans targeting black voters?

They're not. They're targeting all voters.

Yeah. Whatever. As I keep pointing out the changes disproportionately affect black voters because they are more likely to be poor and not have a photo ID. I've also pointed out that it's not about racism and that the Republicans are really targeting black voters not because they are black, but because they are a Democratic constituency.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it for you. If it will ease your conscience to pretend that all voters are affected equally, go right ahead.

I've had a photo ID since I signed up for Driver's Ed. Are you telling me that to get food stamps, Medicaid, or any other assistance, you don't need to prove who you are? I'm seeing a big problem with that. And, obviously, these people never buy alcohol or cold medicine.

KarenT wrote:

I've had a photo ID since I signed up for Driver's Ed.

Yeah. Me too, Karen. The photo ID laws won't affect us.

Quote :

Are you telling me that to get food stamps, Medicaid, or any other assistance, you don't need to prove who you are?

Of course you need to furnish something that confirms your identity. That doesn't mean that it needs to be a photo ID.

I was genuinely surprised when I found out that more than 21 million people do not have government issued photo identification. It just seems unbelievable, doesn't it? But the fact of the matter is that is reality. And as long as that is true, Republicans should not be proposing laws that rob these people of their right to vote.

Scorpion wrote:

KarenT wrote:

I've had a photo ID since I signed up for Driver's Ed.

Yeah. Me too, Karen. The photo ID laws won't affect us.

Quote :

Are you telling me that to get food stamps, Medicaid, or any other assistance, you don't need to prove who you are?

Of course you need to furnish something that confirms your identity. That doesn't mean that it needs to be a photo ID.

I believe a birth certificate,SS card,and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.

Quote :

I was genuinely surprised when I found out that more than 21 million people do not have government issued photo identification. It just seems unbelievable, doesn't it? But the fact of the matter is that is reality. And as long as that is true, Republicans should not be proposing laws that rob these people of their right to vote.

I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

The truth is that Republicans have a long history of trying to make it as difficult as possible for everyone to vote. Here's an article going back to 1993 where IL Gov Jim Edgar-R fought tooth and nail to stop people from being able to register at the Drivers License facilities of all places.
Illinois Drops Motor Voter Appeal Edgar Wants To See Results Of Other States' Challenges

So - I could take my neighbor's ID to get food stamps in her name? Never mind that I'm taller, lighter, basically don't look anything like her? So much potential for abuse there.

KarenT wrote:

So - I could take my neighbor's ID to get food stamps in her name? Never mind that I'm taller, lighter, basically don't look anything like her? So much potential for abuse there.

Really? First of all, why in the world would you do something like that? Would your neighbor just hand over her documents to you, with no questions asked? And wouldn't the food stamps be sent to your neighbor, instead of you? I really don't think that this is a very realistic scenario, Karen.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

I believe a birth certificate,SS card,and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.

I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

[b]Let me get this straight, Artie.
You have absolutely no problem with forcing voters to produce the four forms of identification you have laid out above (not to mention exposing their financial info), but asking them to produce one photo ID is simply outrageous?
Very interesting.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind that logic.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Applying for financial and medical aid is going to cost the provider a significant amount of money over time. Secondly,there have been lots and lots of documented cases with people fraudulently apply for and receiving welfare benefits. The same cannot be said of alleged voter fraud,which as Heretic pointed out earlier is just plain Republican BS to try to suppress voting for certain groups.

Quote :

The last time I had to access any birth certificates, it was much more of a hassle than merely going to the DMV to renew a photo ID. For one thing, the birth certificates had to be retrieved from the county seat, not a local office like the DMV. With the price of gasoline being what it is, I would think that it would be much more economical to go to a local DMV, get the photo ID, and be done with it.
So much for the 'poor black people' argument, wouldn't you say?

Yeah,well when the huge majority of the demographic you're targeting doesn't even own a car and probably doesn't have easy access to public transportation,it becomes somewhat of an obstacle doesn't it? If Rebubs were serious they would put forth a plan to make it easier to obtain the documents needed,like a National ID card.

happy jack wrote:

In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.

I believe he was referring to the vast majority of those that would be affected by the voter ID laws, not the majority of voters.

Heretic wrote:

happy jack wrote:

In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.

I believe he was referring to the vast majority of those that would be affected by the voter ID laws, not the majority of voters.

Exactly! :thanks: