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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/7/2011, 12:07 pm

Scorpion wrote:
KarenT wrote:
I've had a photo ID since I signed up for Driver's Ed.

Yeah. Me too, Karen. The photo ID laws won't affect us.

Quote :
Are you telling me that to get food stamps, Medicaid, or any other assistance, you don't need to prove who you are?

Of course you need to furnish something that confirms your identity. That doesn't mean that it needs to be a photo ID.
I believe a birth certificate,SS card,and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.
Quote :
I was genuinely surprised when I found out that more than 21 million people do not have government issued photo identification. It just seems unbelievable, doesn't it? But the fact of the matter is that is reality. And as long as that is true, Republicans should not be proposing laws that rob these people of their right to vote.
I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

The truth is that Republicans have a long history of trying to make it as difficult as possible for everyone to vote. Here's an article going back to 1993 where IL Gov Jim Edgar-R fought tooth and nail to stop people from being able to register at the Drivers License facilities of all places. Rolling Eyes
Illinois Drops Motor Voter Appeal Edgar Wants To See Results Of Other States' Challenges
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/7/2011, 3:18 pm

So - I could take my neighbor's ID to get food stamps in her name? Never mind that I'm taller, lighter, basically don't look anything like her? So much potential for abuse there.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/7/2011, 3:24 pm

KarenT wrote:
So - I could take my neighbor's ID to get food stamps in her name? Never mind that I'm taller, lighter, basically don't look anything like her? So much potential for abuse there.

Really? First of all, why in the world would you do something like that? Would your neighbor just hand over her documents to you, with no questions asked? And wouldn't the food stamps be sent to your neighbor, instead of you? I really don't think that this is a very realistic scenario, Karen.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/8/2011, 7:16 am

Artie60438 wrote:

I believe a birth certificate,SS card,and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.

I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

Let me get this straight, Artie.
You have absolutely no problem with forcing voters to produce the four forms of identification you have laid out above (not to mention exposing their financial info), but asking them to produce one photo ID is simply outrageous?
Very interesting.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind that logic.
The last time I had to access any birth certificates, it was much more of a hassle than merely going to the DMV to renew a photo ID. For one thing, the birth certificates had to be retrieved from the county seat, not a local office like the DMV. With the price of gasoline being what it is, I would think that it would be much more economical to go to a local DMV, get the photo ID, and be done with it.
So much for the 'poor black people' argument, wouldn't you say?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/8/2011, 8:43 am

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:

I believe a birth certificate,SS card,and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.

I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

[b]Let me get this straight, Artie.
You have absolutely no problem with forcing voters to produce the four forms of identification you have laid out above (not to mention exposing their financial info), but asking them to produce one photo ID is simply outrageous?
Very interesting.
I'd like to hear the rationale behind that logic.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Applying for financial and medical aid is going to cost the provider a significant amount of money over time. Secondly,there have been lots and lots of documented cases with people fraudulently apply for and receiving welfare benefits. The same cannot be said of alleged voter fraud,which as Heretic pointed out earlier is just plain Republican BS to try to suppress voting for certain groups.
Quote :
The last time I had to access any birth certificates, it was much more of a hassle than merely going to the DMV to renew a photo ID. For one thing, the birth certificates had to be retrieved from the county seat, not a local office like the DMV. With the price of gasoline being what it is, I would think that it would be much more economical to go to a local DMV, get the photo ID, and be done with it.
So much for the 'poor black people' argument, wouldn't you say?
Yeah,well when the huge majority of the demographic you're targeting doesn't even own a car and probably doesn't have easy access to public transportation,it becomes somewhat of an obstacle doesn't it? If Rebubs were serious they would put forth a plan to make it easier to obtain the documents needed,like a National ID card.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/8/2011, 6:39 pm

Artie60438 wrote:

You're comparing apples to oranges. Applying for financial and medical aid is going to cost the provider a significant amount of money over time. Secondly,there have been lots and lots of documented cases with people fraudulently apply for and receiving welfare benefits.
What are you even talking about?



Artie60438 wrote:

Yeah,well when the huge majority of the demographic you're targeting doesn't even own a car and probably doesn't have easy access to public transportation,it becomes somewhat of an obstacle doesn't it?
In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.
You claim that the “vast majority” of them didn’t have cars?
Link, please.

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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/8/2011, 9:11 pm

happy jack wrote:
In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.

I believe he was referring to the vast majority of those that would be affected by the voter ID laws, not the majority of voters.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/8/2011, 9:40 pm

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.

I believe he was referring to the vast majority of those that would be affected by the voter ID laws, not the majority of voters.
Exactly! :thanks:
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 6:39 am

Artie60438 wrote:
Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
In the last election, there were about 169,000,000 registered voters.

I believe he was referring to the vast majority of those that would be affected by the voter ID laws, not the majority of voters.
Exactly! :thanks:
Every voter would be affected, as every voter would be required to have the photo ID.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 6:41 am

You never did answer my question:
Why would you have absolutely no problem with forcing voters to produce the four forms of identification you have laid out above (not to mention exposing their financial info), but asking them to produce one photo ID is simply outrageous?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 7:53 am

happy jack wrote:
[b]You never did answer my question:
Why would you have absolutely no problem with forcing voters to produce the four forms of identification you have laid out above (not to mention exposing their financial info), but asking them to produce one photo ID is simply outrageous?[/b
I already did answer it. Ask someone else to explain it to you. I'm too busy.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 9:32 am

happy jack wrote:
You never did answer my question:

Now that you mention it, I'd like to point out that you never answered my questions, which actually had something to do with the topic, which is about voting. It just seems to me that these questions are a lot more relevant than discussing the requirements for public assistance.

Scorpion wrote:
What is the justification for requiring a photo ID?

Why do you think it should be required?

The answers to these questions are significant because from what I've read, 11 percent of the eligible population, around 21 million people, don't have a photo ID.

In light of the fact that these people won't be allowed to vote because they don't have a photo ID, there really needs to be a better reason than "I'm not insisting that anyone do any more than what I am willing to do." What you are "willing to do" is pull your photo ID from your wallet. That's really not an option for those who don't have one in their wallet, is it?

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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 5:31 pm

So the voting poor don't drink?!?!?!? Good for them~
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/9/2011, 7:14 pm

KarenT wrote:
So the voting poor don't drink?!?!?!? Good for them~
If you look old enough and you don't live in a state with idiotic liquor laws like Indiana, you probably don't need one. Wink
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 4:16 pm

Depends if the ABC is in town. I've gone to bars with a bunch of co-workers and we all got carded. No, I don't think I look under 21 - teehee!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 4:35 pm

[quote="Scorpion"]
Scorpion wrote:
What is the justification for requiring a photo ID?

Why do you think it should be required?


Artie60438 wrote:

I believe a birth certificate, SS card, and perhaps a current bill that would confirm your address along with your financial info.
I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness, but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.
If the voting process is as sacred to you as you proclaim, then why not employ one simple, easily obtained and easily verifiable document (rather than a handful of scraps of paper, as outlined above) to ensure that the voting process moves smoothly, legally, and fairly?
Or would you prefer that no identification whatsoever be mandated?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 4:37 pm

Scorpion wrote:


Now that you mention it, I'd like to point out that you never answered my questions, which actually had something to do with the topic, which is about voting. It just seems to me that these questions are a lot more relevant than discussing the requirements for public assistance.

Yes, I'm not quite sure how the requirements for public assistance entered this discussion, other than as a way to change the subject.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 5:52 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


Now that you mention it, I'd like to point out that you never answered my questions, which actually had something to do with the topic, which is about voting. It just seems to me that these questions are a lot more relevant than discussing the requirements for public assistance.

[bYes, I'm not quite sure how the requirements for public assistance entered this discussion, other than as a way to change the subject.[/b]
You're not? Shocked If you would have taken a moment to look back at the previous posts you clearly would have seen that originally KarenT brought the subject up and it certainly wasn't an attempt on her part to change the subject. I answered her question and posted this,which is totally on topic,along with it:
Quote :
I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,but the first ones that would scream about it are the righties.

The truth is that Republicans have a long history of trying to make it as difficult as possible for everyone to vote. Here's an article going back to 1993 where IL Gov Jim Edgar-R fought tooth and nail to stop people from being able to register at the Drivers License facilities of all places. Rolling Eyes
Illinois Drops Motor Voter Appeal Edgar Wants To See Results Of Other States' Challenges
You,of course,completely ignored what I posted that was on topic,and instead proceeded to start comparing apples (voting requirements) to oranges (Welfare requirements).
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 6:05 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,
Why is obtaining a state ID card such a huge burden, while obtaining a national ID card is no problem for you?
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 7:23 pm

I don't think it's a problem for a productive member of society.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 8:25 pm

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I'm in favor of a national ID card that would end all this foolishness,
Why is obtaining a state ID card such a huge burden, while obtaining a national ID card is no problem for you?
I believe that a National ID card would be easier to obtain if the Federal gov't was the one responsible for issuing them as opposed to letting the states determine where or how.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 9:59 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:

What is the justification for requiring a photo ID?

Why do you think it should be required?



If the voting process is as sacred to you as you proclaim, then why not employ one simple, easily obtained and easily verifiable document (rather than a handful of scraps of paper, as outlined above) to ensure that the voting process moves smoothly, legally, and fairly?
Or would you prefer that no identification whatsoever be mandated?

Yeah. Well for the record, I'm certainly not in favor of a "national ID" anymore than I'm in favor of a photo ID. And I never suggested the need for "the handful of scraps of paper as outlined above".

IMHO, as for what is needed to vote, simply being registered to vote should be good enough. You still need to sign your name. I don't see any reason that the voting process can't proceed "smoothly, legally, and fairly" under those conditions.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/10/2011, 10:06 pm

KarenT wrote:
I don't think it's a problem for a productive member of society.

What, exactly do you mean by a "productive member of society?" Are you saying that the 21 million Americans who don't have not have government-issued photo identification aren't "productive members of society?

If you could clarify, it would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/11/2011, 7:37 am

People who pay taxes, who give more than they receive, who support their children, don't do drugs, volunteer somewhere, are missed when they are gone.

Totally honest - until the voter ID bill was talked about several years ago, I didn't know there weren't people without photo IDs.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Voter Identification   5/11/2011, 1:09 pm

Yeah. Well the proposed voter photo ID laws are the classic "solution looking for a problem." Unless, of course, the problem is "How can the Republicans suppress the vote, and legally disenfranchise voters more likely to vote Democratic?"

The proposed laws just aren't justified or necessary to achieve any other purpose. There may be valid reasons for requiring a photo ID for other purposes, but voting is not one of them.

And you do realize that if these laws go into effect, the taxpayers are the ones who are going to foot the bill for providing a free photo ID for people who won't be able to vote without one, right? Because if we didn't, it would violate the laws regarding poll taxes...

I'd be really interested in hearing the reason why millions and millions of taxpayer dollars should be spent on something that is completely unnecessary.

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