Drive-by shooting at McTaverns last weekend

I heard that there was a drive-by shooting at McTaverns last weekend, but I didn't see anything about it in the paper. Does anyone know more about the details?

honestly i have heard nothing. and being as my best friend lives literally right next door to the place, id have to say i think something about what you heard, may be inaccurate. but ill ask him later today to see whats up.

sparks wrote:

I heard that there was a drive-by shooting at McTaverns last weekend, but I didn't see anything about it in the paper. Does anyone know more about the details?

Sparks, the only thing I saw or read, even doing research is that you are reporting on something I can't find doing research or researching anything.

I have to take your word for it. There was a fly-by shooting in the area of McTavern's which could mean it was anywhere near the place, which means within the vicinity.

Big deal..you can walk in Lincoln Park today, and find the same type of crime...just don't latch it onto a business. The hoods are everywhere.

Everyone is quick to blame the pub or tavern. Save the saliva.

the oracle wrote:

honestly i have heard nothing. and being as my best friend lives literally right next door to the place, id have to say i think something about what you heard, may be inaccurate. but ill ask him later today to see whats up.

Just to satisfy Sparkes curiousity, did you find time to find out if Spark's suspicions are true...Was it five blocks away? In the parking lot across the street, down the block, or right there, smack in McTavern's tavern or parking lot?

Like it doesn't occur in affluent neighborhoods...get my drift?

i asked and was told noone knew anything about it.

sparks wrote:

I heard that there was a drive-by shooting at McTaverns last weekend, but I didn't see anything about it in the paper. Does anyone know more about the details?

I heard it was a soccer mom in a Plymouth mini van with Illinois license plates. She sprayed the parking lot with automatic weapon fire aiming at 5, maybe six illegal aliens. She was apprehended shortly, and taken to the Hammond Police station, where she was booked and posted $200 bond. When asked why she did it, her response was that the people she was shooting at forgot to mow a small area of her lawn, and the Lawn Patrol issued her a ticket for having her lawn approximately 1/2" too long...Go figure.

if we knew she had Illinois plates she could have been cited for that also...go figure

sparks, hope you see the story in the paper today. apparently there was a pretty rough fight there the other night http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/article_ea44c6fe-e74b-52ae-b1f5-373950dc1840.html

police werent called to the scene at the time....and it occurred last thursday not on the weekend which is why the patrol guy i talked tom nor the nieghbor, knew nothing about it.

the oracle wrote:

sparks, hope you see the story in the paper today. apparently there was a pretty rough fight there the other night http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/article_ea44c6fe-e74b-52ae-b1f5-373950dc1840.html

police werent called to the scene at the time....and it occurred last thursday not on the weekend which is why the patrol guy i talked tom nor the nieghbor, knew nothing about it.

I heard the rumor from the head of a crime watch group. I consider him a credible source. I'll ask him about it at the next crime watch meeting. I think the story in the Times is a different incident. Since the liquor commission meets in Sept. to consider renewing their license,these latest problems are going to make McTavern's look bad.

sparks wrote:

I heard the rumor from the head of a crime watch group. I consider him a credible source. I'll ask him about it at the next crime watch meeting. I think the story in the Times is a different incident. Since the liquor commission meets in Sept. to consider renewing their license,these latest problems are going to make McTavern's look bad.

This one incident will make McTavern's look bad? You are just too much lip service. While you and your little Crime Group are out measuring lawns, the real crime is ignored...Good job sparkie.

sparks wrote:

the oracle wrote:

sparks, hope you see the story in the paper today. apparently there was a pretty rough fight there the other night http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/article_ea44c6fe-e74b-52ae-b1f5-373950dc1840.html

police werent called to the scene at the time....and it occurred last thursday not on the weekend which is why the patrol guy i talked tom nor the nieghbor, knew nothing about it.

I heard the rumor from the head of a crime watch group. I consider him a credible source. I'll ask him about it at the next crime watch meeting. I think the story in the Times is a different incident. Since the liquor commission meets in Sept. to consider renewing their license,these latest problems are going to make McTavern's look bad.

if your talking about fleming he is a good guy...but i promise you a shooting at that bar would be big news. the nieghbor guy i referred to earlier in this thread isnt a big fan of that place and would be making a big deal about another shooting there.

im guessing fleming was given slightly exaggerated info. even still the thing that actually did happen is plenty bad enough imo

I would think by now, under-cover narcotics division, or under-cover cops would be checking out the bathrooms, the actual visitation of patrons entering and exiting the bathrooms, because that's where the drug snorts take place.

Why are they waiting for incidents to happen, rather than taking measures, going undercover, and observing?


Why not go undercover, and notice the traffic and sniffling of the noses after they exit the bathroom?

That stupid? :bball:

Police said they were called to Advocate Trinity Hospital in Chicago at 3:30 a.m. by emergency room staff regarding three men injured in Hammond, but there were no calls to police from McTavern's.
One of the injured men, a 33-year-old South Deering resident, said he was knocked unconscious and awoke to see bouncers from the bar herding the attackers back inside and then locking the door.
He and a cousin drove the three more seriously injured relatives to Trinity, he said.
The tavern's owner said Thursday afternoon he was not present during the altercation, but was cooperating with police investigators.
Police said they had no suspects late Thursday.
Anyone with information about the incident is asked to call Hammond Police Detective Sgt. John Murks at (219) 852-2982.

Excuse ME, Oracle, but since when does a fight like this at a tavern result in no calls to the Hammond POLICE? And...they all got farmed out to the hospitals? Me smells a rat. They either had warrants out, or there was a reason the Hammond police were not notified immediately. Something does not add up here. I mean, NOTHING.... especially when the press presents it this way, and long after the fact.

Was a cop related to one of the guys, or, is this the "norm"? I was in the bar business; you call the cops, you don't call an ambulance, you call the cops, then the ambulance.I smell a fish in this story. Way...too fishy. :drink:

if i had to guess. the bar has a liquor liscense hearing coming up so the folks at the bar didnt want police involved because they know what another story like this could mean to them. and the victims probably were out of line or under the influence as well...and didnt want police their either.

but when a life is in jeopardy because of violence, be it gun or otherwise. doctors by law have to call the authorities. my guess is thats when and why police got involved.


so to sum it up. this is speculation but it seems something happenned inside the bar, spilled outside. and the niether the victims nor the bar wanted the police involved. so the police werent involved until the doctors called them.

personally...and ive maintained this position since the first shooting in the latest rash occurred about a year ago. i think the bar needs to go and applaud the efforts of those who our out trying to get it shut down. far too many incidents have occurred at that location right next to residences and in the middle of what we hope will eventually become a flourishing business corridor

im not opposed to bars in general if they are run properly and arent intentionally recruiting gangsters and dealers...but imo this bar obviously is.

but that doesnt change the fact that there was not a shooting there last week. which is what sparks was asking about.

I see and understand your point. However, if that bar is such a problematic issue, based next to residential areas, why not nip it in the bud?

Have under-covers go in there, try and nip it and give no reason to renew the license, if it is that bad of a place? Have under-covers documented incidents while they occur, to back up their (Hammond's) reason to deny them to be in business? Armed themselves? Shitz happens beyond your control, even with bouncers around.

If there is a grudge, document it, film it...ask for footage...don't put someone out of business just because things like that happen, with or without being located near a bar.

I'm just trying to be fair. There may be reason to deny a liquor license, but it must be backed up by the bar owners' video, police-documented episodes. From the outside, it looks like a nice place to stop in for a drink...maybe because they are on the "other" side of town, near an expressway, things don't go so nice.

Have or has the Hammond police stopped in to discuss the problems with the owner? I feel for the owner if the city takes away his "livelihood," and I mean, trying to make a living.

there have been undercovers in there and the bar has been closed and cited at least twice that i know of in the past several months. all of that documentation will be put before the liscensing board.

furthermore the owner has attended some crime watch meetings where is very establishment was the main issue. so i know he is well aware of the situation

but the police department and the city have an obligation to ensure that all bars are following the laws and codes and cant single out any particular place more than another....as that would show bias.

the place used to be a popular political hangout catering to folks in the8ir 40's and 50's. but in recent years it caters to a much younger crowd. in the past year there have been 2 fatal shootings and now this...that i know of at that location. the last bar that had this kind of track record was the brothers2 (forgot last name before it closed) on kennedy and 165th. that was closed down 2 years ago after the citizens got about 1000 signatures against it. same type of momentum seems to be occurring against mctaverns right now.

I do know that last night around midnight a sting operation took place. I witnessed several Police, fire, excise and code enforcement officers empty the bar out, and after about 45 minutes the patrons were allowed to go back in. At about 3 pm I was again woken up, this time by police sirens, as the bar was closing. I have the advantage of sitting in my bathroom and watching everthing that goes on there.
I actually witnessed the shooting where the punk got killed trying to rob the guy last winter, what a dumbass he allowed the robbery victim to reach back in to his vehicle and get his "wallet". The night the bouncer was shot he literally landed 3 feet from my garage apron. I have had one phone conversation with Don, Butch's partner and his son. They are complete jackoffs, they claim to want to co-operate with the neighbors, yet the night they were busted with over 100 people more than they should have had in there, they bitched they were being picked on and wanted thier occupency level raised.
I could care less what they want, or if they think I'm screwing with them. what worries me is I have a 4 year old grandson and my neighbor 2 doors north has a 4 year old. Thank god they have a privacy fence because a bullet was dug out of there, that had a direct line to the room where he sleeps, the night the security guard was shot. Screw McTaverns they're gonna get what they deserve. Pressure can also be put on The Wheel Resturant and John Garcia's business where McTaverns moron customers park, when thier lot is filled. Sooner or later Don and his jackoff son will get it, I as well as several neighbors will make thier lives, as well as thier gangbanger patrons lives so miserable, that they will either be shut down or will have no customers left.

Mailman wrote:

I do know that last night around midnight a sting operation took place. I witnessed several Police, fire, excise and code enforcement officers empty the bar out, and after about 45 minutes the patrons were allowed to go back in. At about 3 pm I was again woken up, this time by police sirens, as the bar was closing. I have the advantage of sitting in my bathroom and watching everthing that goes on there.
I actually witnessed the shooting where the punk got killed trying to rob the guy last winter, what a dumbass he allowed the robbery victim to reach back in to his vehicle and get his "wallet". The night the bouncer was shot he literally landed 3 feet from my garage apron. I have had one phone conversation with Don, Butch's partner and his son. They are complete jackoffs, they claim to want to co-operate with the neighbors, yet the night they were busted with over 100 people more than they should have had in there, they bitched they were being picked on and wanted thier occupency level raised.
I could care less what they want, or if they think I'm screwing with them. what worries me is I have a 4 year old grandson and my neighbor 2 doors north has a 4 year old. Thank god they have a privacy fence because a bullet was dug out of there, that had a direct line to the room where he sleeps, the night the security guard was shot. Screw McTaverns they're gonna get what they deserve. Pressure can also be put on The Wheel Resturant and John Garcia's business where McTaverns moron customers park, when thier lot is filled. Sooner or later Don and his jackoff son will get it, I as well as several neighbors will make thier lives, as well as thier gangbanger patrons lives so miserable, that they will either be shut down or will have no customers left.

My family appreciates everything you have done to put a stop to the violence McTavern's has brought to our community and would like to thank you for all your efforts.

Well. Mailman, reading your side of the story, your "perspective". actually witnessing the prior incidents, next to a neighborhood bar, trying to live the suburban life...go for it. I wouldn't put up with it, either.

I just wish the papers would inform us, or a website that really describes, day by day, what is happening in Hammond, negative or not, to inform us what occurs, as it occurs.

The Hammond Police Department would well be the source to at least post actual incidents in details. Not the usual statistic. That is my beef...a one month summarization is too late. A day by day alert would help the community out. I've been a victim from a crime, and from dragging the criminal around, submitting evidence, only to be called stupid by the cops. double victimized, twice. From the burglar who admitted it, and because of the way the detectives bluffed me, victimized again. Long story, but they scared me out of town.

I will never sleep alone in that house. Have Sparks measure my grass, so I don't have to.

chris flemings group is having a meeting on the subject tonight (Tuesday) at the church on southeastern and 173rd at 630

good meeting of the woodmar community watch group last night. about 40 people in attendance all signing the mctaverns petition. other petitions as well against dodos on conkey (similar problems) and a liquor store at summer and columbia that apparently has been caught openly selling to underaged persons.

mctaverns hearing is before the county liquor board is thursday at 9 am at the county. anyone wishing to speak on the issue can do so, all they have to do is attend and sign in. the mayor made a point of saying that liquor liscenses arent all bad. but that if a business shows that they arent going to take the liscense responsibly than the city is going to oppose their continued existence.

one other note, i had never thought of. apparently this summer it has been common for burglars to gain entry by simply pushing in window air conditioners than going in through that window. a group of kids was recently arrested after committing a string of this kind of burglary. there is some type of preventative device that will make it almost impossible for entry this way. but i was in the back of the room and could not hear the details of said device.

edison community watch (ms venecz' group) has its meeting at edison school at 630 tonight. mctaverns petitions will be available there, for those that havent signed yet.

I enjoyed attending the crime watch meeting last night. It is a pleasure to attend a well-run crime watch meeting. The speakers included Mayor McDermott, city attorney Chris Kantar, Sgt. John Muta and crime watch heads Chris Fleming,Janet Venecz and Dave Woerpel. In spite of all the information that was presented, the meeting was finished in a little over an hour. It was also a very positive,upbeat meeting. I think the three crime watch groups that have separated themselves from the Hammond crime watch umbrella were right to leave a group that is now being dominated by toxic people. Lastly, it was great to see my message board buddy, the Oracle again.

I attended the Lake county alcohol control board hearing yesterday and spoke as a remonstrator who is opposed to the renewal of McTavern's liquor license. It felt really good to finally do something about shutting this place down. Two other licenses were denied yestrday, one in East Chicago and the transfer of a license to the Edison district. I believe that Mctavern's petition would have been denied also if they hadn't asked for a continuance. The continuance will give us a chance to obtain even more signatures for the remonstration petition. We can also work on getting the licenses for A-One liquors on Columbia and Summer and DoDo's bar denied also. All that it takes to receive a denial is for the community to show they don't want or need the license. After all the stories about McTavern's in the paper and all the crime watch meeting about this issue, only five people spoke against them.Councilman Dan RePay, City attorney Christina Kantar, myself, George Janiec and a resident who lives directly behind McTavern's. The next hearing is Thursday, October 1, 9 am at the Lake County government center. I hope others will take the time to show up and speak out about the negative impact these establishments have on our community.

Artie60438 wrote:

McTavern's faces opposition to liquor license renewal Two homicides, 88 police calls fuel criticism in Hammond

So why do you care, you live in Illinois...slow posting day?