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 The Proposed New York Mosque

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Scorpion

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PostSubject: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/12/2010, 1:45 pm

I just wanted to start a thread about this subject. Personally, I've been appalled at the negative reaction by many to the proposed cultural center.

I have more to say regarding this, but I'll wait and see f there is any interest in discussing this topic
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/12/2010, 4:39 pm

The hatred that's come out stunning. John Stewart had a great segment on it the other night.

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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/12/2010, 6:48 pm

We shouldn't have a mosque in New York for the same reason there aren't Japanese restaurants and sushi in Hawaii.

Or something. I don't know... My brain starts hurting when I attempt to understand tea party logic. Suspect
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/12/2010, 6:59 pm

The most terrifying "you woke up in bizarro world" story about this was that the ADL came out against it, prompting Fareed Zakaria to return an award given to him by the league for fighting for religious freedom. He explained his reasons:

Quote :
Bloomberg’s speech stands in stark contrast to the bizarre decision of the Anti-Defamation League to publicly side with those urging that the center be moved. The ADL’s mission statement says it seeks “to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.” But Abraham Foxman, the head of the ADL, explained that we must all respect the feelings of the 9/11 families, even if they are prejudiced feelings. “Their anguish entitles them to positions that others would categorize as irrational or bigoted,” he said. First, the 9/11 families have mixed views on this mosque. There were, after all, dozens of Muslims killed at the World Trade Center. Do their feelings count? But more important, does Foxman believe that bigotry is OK if people think they’re victims? Does the anguish of Palestinians, then, entitle them to be anti-Semitic?

Five years ago, the ADL honored me with its Hubert H. Humphrey First Amendment Freedoms Prize. I was thrilled to get the award from an organization that I had long admired. But I cannot in good conscience keep it anymore. I have returned both the handsome plaque and the $10,000 honorarium that came with it. I urge the ADL to reverse its decision. Admitting an error is a small price to pay to regain a reputation.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/12/2010, 7:23 pm

And besides, we've had a mosque in the Pentagon for quite some time now with little or no fanfare that I noticed, demolishing what ever bullshit "THEYZ COMES KILL US WHILE WE SLEEPZ" or "THINK OF THE FAMILIES" reasoning that's ultimately behind this.

And if conservatives really cared about the soldiers dying in this "war vs Islam", they'd support such an endeavor. Not only do contemporary mosques deter terrorism, but such public and blatantly xenophobic opposition only feeds into the "America's out to get us" myth that terrorists use for recruitment.

This whole thing just smacks of the usual ignorance, fear, and hypocrisy I've come to know and loathe from conservatives and Republicans over the past couple of years.
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 5:59 am

It's a couple blocks away. They haven't even started rebuilding at ground zero - for heaven's sake, get something going!
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 6:59 am

Heretic wrote:
...I've come to know and loathe from conservatives and Republicans over the past couple of years.
At least you admit to two groups, conservatives and Republicans.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 7:48 am

They identify themselves as two different groups, though I see little difference between them.

Any comment on the actual topic?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 11:39 am

KarenT wrote:
It's a couple blocks away. They haven't even started rebuilding at ground zero - for heaven's sake, get something going!

There has been a lot of progress at the site. The new One World Trade Center is already 34 stories tall.

The new WTC7 building has been completed.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

Here's a site with pictures of the progress, updated daily, if you're interested...

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 11:59 am

Scorpion wrote:
KarenT wrote:
It's a couple blocks away. They haven't even started rebuilding at ground zero - for heaven's sake, get something going!

There has been a lot of progress at the site. The new One World Trade Center is already 34 stories tall.
This has to be one of the best kept secrets ever. Like Karen,I had no idea construction had started.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 1:15 pm

Hell, I didn't know either. What's the final project gonna look like?

I always like this clip about what to rebuild on the site. It's from Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t! back when they were still arguing over what to build (not safe for work, or those who are squeamish around foul language):



The best defense to terrorism is to not be terrorized.

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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/13/2010, 4:13 pm

Heretic wrote:
Hell, I didn't know either. What's the final project gonna look like?

Here's a page with some videos and animations that show what it's all going to look like....

http://www.myfoxny.com/generic/news/World-Trade-Center-Tour

It looks like it will be pretty awesome to me.
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 7:43 am

Heretic wrote:
They identify themselves as two different groups, though I see little difference between them.

Any comment on the actual topic?
Constitutionally --- Legal
Ethically --- In Bad Taste
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 10:43 am

There's been a lot of talk about "Where, exactly is the money coming from" to finance this mosque...and that hasn't been answered yet.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 11:17 am

UrRight wrote:
There's been a lot of talk about "Where, exactly is the money coming from" to finance this mosque...and that hasn't been answered yet.

This is a list of foundations that are supporters and the rest will probably come from Muslims.
[list]
[*]Carnegie Corporation of New York
[*]Rockefeller Brothers
[*]Rockefeller Philanthropy
[*]Rockefeller Brothers Fund
[*]Global Fund for Women
[*]William & Mary Greve Foundation
[*]The Sister Fund
[*]The Russell Family Foundation
[*]Danny Kaye & Sylvia Fine Foundation
[*]Graham Charitable Foundation
[*]Deak Family Foundation
[*]Henry Luce Foundation
[*]The Elizabeth Foundation
[*]The Ms. Foundation
[*]Hunt Alternatives
http://www.asmasociety.org/home/p_support.html
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 11:32 am

I read up in Michigan's paper that they linked or suspected a link to overseas...can't remember - but they wanted confirmation.

Obviously it was a rumor - speculation. But I feel it is unethical, and if they consider themselves Americans, they would consider all American's feelings toward this issue before building it.

I don't think it is proper or ethical.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 2:19 pm

BigWhiteGuy wrote:
Heretic wrote:
They identify themselves as two different groups, though I see little difference between them.

Any comment on the actual topic?
Constitutionally --- Legal
Ethically --- In Bad Taste

How exactly is it "in bad taste" for a religious group to build a cultural center?
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 2:41 pm

What I recall reading was that the terrorist-linked idiots are funding this, and it was to be investigated.

It was as if they were to make a "Landmark" of their accomplishment of the zero ground landmark. Funded by terrorist...and they were investigating it...

Meanwhile, Obama a MUSLIM who won't admit he is, is all for this,...
No way in hell as a POTUS I would support this project until I exactly knew where the money was coming from.

I don't for once believe he is not a leader. He's an A-HOLE. Enjoying the four years of vacations, golf, basketball, etc., and could be spending that time in the Oval Office.
He deceived the voters that voted for him. I am glad I didn't fall for his lies.

He's a MUSLIM underneath that skin. He used his skin color to offer false HOPE. He deceived my parents...who now regret ever falling for his "HOPE AND CHANGE".
I'm proud of the fact that I didn't vote for this ficticious liar.
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 2:53 pm

Reported by LYNN SWEET in the Chicago Sun-times:


Michelle promised to spend time in Spain with a friend who was mourning the death of her father.
FACT: Go and invite her to the White House with all the the privacy of a theatre, bowling alley, servants, and any privacy you want. While telling Americans "to tighten their belts".
Next, a trip to the Gulf. Her excuse today is, "They promised Sasha or the other kid, that if they won the POTUS position, they would take her to the "Gulf" for a vacation.
FACT: After much criticism, it only took the first a-hole famiy 27 hours after leaving Spain to go to the GULF to entice visitors. Screw you...the shrimp is on sale for a dollar a pound now at local groceries...spread your lies. I don't trust the FDA.

Lastly, another 10 day vacation to Martha's Vineyard...

So,..when does this POTUS work with these over 250 flights on the Presidents' Plane ever work inside the luxurious White House? He has no clue to foreign affairs and Hillary did state that during her campaign.

She's probably as fed up with him as the American people, cuz she recently stated she will no longer follow his orders on dealing with foreign matters and will deal with it, "her way".
Which leaves us with NO LEADER. He's soaking up the public like a typical idiot that got the golden keys to the castle...just a typical idiot.
I don't care if you jump on me or not....truth is...our country is in worse shape that when Bush was in charge...and we all will suffer long after this turd is gone. He is just not qualified.

He used his mouth to B.S. and got in that way. All he has is his mouth. All talk, no action. He has no clue how to lead the nation. They are just a typical a-hole family on a four year vacation.

Cuz he doesn't care, isn't qualified, and has done nothing but play basketball, golf, and flucked us.
He's a nothing. Just like his Rev. Wright who was an a-hole.
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 3:08 pm

What has this turd done to "HOPE and Change"?

I'm dying to hear from SWEET CAROLINE Kennedy. I bet she rerets campaigning for him.

He "sounded like her father," but acted differently. He didn't back up his words.I bet she's embarrased and remorseful.
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 3:21 pm

UrRight wrote:
What has this turd done to "HOPE and Change"?

I'm dying to hear from SWEET CAROLINE Kennedy. I bet she rerets campaigning for him.

He "sounded like her father," but acted differently. He didn't back up his words.I bet she's embarrased and remorseful.
I'll bet she's NOT...
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 3:28 pm

Newsweek, Time Praise ‘Moderate’ Imam Behind Mosque Despite Questionable Ties
Media still ignore legitimate concerns over Islamic building plans near Ground Zero.

By Alana Goodman
Culture and Media Institute
August 10, 2010

Many in the mainstream press are still lauding Ground Zero mosque Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf as a “moderate” Muslim, despite the growing number of reports that bring into question his ties to extremists, the funding sources for his proposed mosque and his building plans.

“[The mosque] is the brainchild of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, a well-meaning American cleric who has spent years trying to promote interfaith understanding, not an apostle of religious war like Osama bin Laden,” reported the Economist on Aug. 7.

The network news stations have also ignored legitimate criticism of the Feisal, with only one program – CBS “Evening News” on Aug. 3 – reporting on these concerns.

Rauf has not been definitively linked to terrorism. However, he has acted as an apologist for terrorists in the past.

“I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved [the Sept. 11 attacks], but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened,” said Feisal on CBS 60 Minutes on Sept. 30, 2001. “[W]e have been an accessory to a lot of – of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, it – in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA.”

Politicians like former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and organizations like the Anti-Defamation League have opposed the Islamic center at Ground Zero and called for an investigation into the mosque’s funding.

And in recent days, information has come to light that raises more questions about Rauf’s mosque project. For example, the group behind the Islamic center – the Cordoba Initiative – does not own one of the buildings on the proposed site of the Islamic center, a fact that the organization did not disclose, according to the New York Post.

http://www.cultureandmediainstitute.org/articles/2010/20100810074609.aspx
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 4:31 pm

This should quelm your "wet dreams"

Off the yahoo site:
by Carlos Hamann Carlos Hamann – Sat Aug 14, 1:23 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – US President Barack Obama's endorsement of a controversial plan to build a mosque just blocks from Ground Zero poured fuel Saturday on a raging debate over religious freedom and sensitivities over the 9/11 attacks.
Muslims "have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said at an Iftar meal at the [color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]White [color:8252=#366388 !important]House for Muslims breaking their Ramadan fast late Friday.
That includes "the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan."
Obama had remained on the sidelines over plans to build an Islamic cultural center, which includes a mosque, two blocks away from the gaping Ground Zero hole where the [color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]Twin [color:8252=#366388 !important]Towers were destroyed on September 11, 2001.
But after a New York city commission on August 3 unanimously approved the plans, the president came out to fully support the project.
"This is America," Obama said, "and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are."
Planners say the multi-story "[color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]Cordoba [color:8252=#366388 !important]House" will include a mosque, sports facilities, theater, restaurant and possibly a day care, and would be open to all visitors to demonstrate that Muslims are part of their community.
In the remarks Obama acknowledged that the site where the World Trade Center towers once stood remains "hallowed ground," and that the 9/11 attacks "were a deeply traumatic event for our country."
The proposed location however has touched raw nerves.
On Saturday the group 9/11 Families for a Safe & Strong America, which represents some relatives of attack victims, said it was "stunned" by the [color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]president's [color:8252=#366388 !important]remarks.
Obama "has abandoned America at the place where America's heart was broken nine years ago, and where her true values were on display for all to see," the group said.
"Now this president declares that the victims of 9/11 and their families must bear another burden. We must stand silent at the last place in America where 9/11 is still remembered with reverence or risk being called religious bigots."
Building the mosque "is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah," the group claimed.
Another group representing other relatives of 9/11 victims, the September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, said in May that it "strongly supports" the Islamic center.
A CNN/Opinion Research poll earlier this month showed that 68 percent of Americans opposed the Islamic center plans, while only 29 percent favored them.
Congressman Peter King, who represents New York in the US House of Representatives, said the Muslim community was "abusing" its rights and "needlessly offending" many people.
"It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of ground zero," said King, a Republican. "Unfortunately the president caved in to political correctness."
Self-described "liberal Muslim" Farzana Hassan, a Canadian, told Fox News on Saturday that she believes the Islamic center's location is "provocative."
"This is highly insensitive to the sentiments of the people who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks," said Hassan, who has written books on Islam.
Obama said the Al-Qaeda terrorists responsible for the 9/11 attacks do not represent Islam.
"It is a gross distortion of Islam," the president said late Friday. "In fact, Al-Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion -- and that list of victims includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a US advocacy group, said it welcomed Obama's "strong support for Muslim religious rights."
Nihad Awad, a senior CAIR official, said he hoped his remarks "will serve as encouragement to those who are challenging the rising level of Islamophobia in our society."
Awad also urged "other national political and religious leaders to speak out in defense of the freedom of religion and equality of all Americans."
One of those reacting Saturday was [color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]New [color:8252=#366388 !important]York [color:8252=#366388 !important]Mayor [color:8252=#366388 !important]Michael [color:8252=#366388 !important]Bloomberg.
"I applaud President Obama's clarion defense of the freedom of religion," Bloomberg said in a statement.
The proposed site "is as important a test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetime," he said.
Passions over the issue run high across the country.
A Florida church has already said it will hold a "Koran-burning" on September 11 -- which this year coincides with [color:8252=#366388 !important][color:8252=#366388 !important]Eid [color:8252=#366388 !important]al-Fitr, the end-of-Ramadan holiday.
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 4:34 pm

Anyway, BWG, I always trust your opinion, why do you say Caroline Kennedy may not at all regret campaigning for Obambie?

President Kennedy in my eyes...was the best POTUS...I feel Caroline was mislead by her uncle.
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: The Proposed New York Mosque   8/14/2010, 4:41 pm

UrRight wrote:
Anyway, BWG, I always trust your opinion, why do you say Caroline Kennedy may not at all regret campaigning for Obambie?

President Kennedy in my eyes...was the best POTUS...I feel Caroline was mislead by her uncle.
She's a DUMBOcrat, another party lemming. Not one to think for herself, not unlike most on this board!
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