Universal Healthcare

In light of this report which found that US healthcare premiums cost an extra $1,000 because of the uninsured, if figured I should post this.

The folks over at Denialism Blog are doing a huge writeup on universal healthcare:

Quote :

A dishonest campaign has started against healthcare reform in this country and the first shot has come from Conservatives for Patients Rights (CPR), a group purporting to show that patients in universal health systems suffer from government interference in health care. To bolster their argument, they have a pile of anecdotes from people around the world who have suffered at the hands of evil government-run systems. The problem, of course, is that anecdotes are not data, it is impossible to determine the veracity or reasonableness of these claims, and there is no way, ethically or practically, to respond to claims against doctors in these systems.

And should we be surprised? Every other country in the industrialized world has universal healthcare. Some are government run, single payer systems, others are mixtures of private and public funding to guarantee universal coverage. I would be shocked if you couldn't find a few people to provide testimonials about how they're angry at their coverage. After all, Michael Moore made an entire movie about such testimonials against our system.

So what do we do? How do we find out the truth when the ideologues and financially interested parties have started a campaign to muddy the water with anecdotal attacks?

We look at the data of course. And surprise, surprise it doesn't support CPR's assertions that our system couldn't stand some improvement.

The facts are killer:

Quote :

Note the United States spends more per capita than any other system and not by a small amount. We spend almost twice as much as the next nearest spender, Canada, and this without covering all of our citizens. We also spend more of our GDP than any other country, almost twice as much as any other country. Note, most other countries have a high percentage of patients enrolled with electronic medical records, a system that makes sharing of information between facilities (currently a major cause of redundancy in expenses) more efficient. Note also that universal doesn't require primary care providers be the gatekeepers. Other systems exist that allow self-referral to specialists.

. . .

Almost universally we pay more for less. We pay more per capita for fewer hospital beds, we pay more per capita for fewer ICU beds, and pay more for ICU stays despite patients staying for fewer days, we have far fewer long term stay facilities, we spend more on fewer practicing physicians per capita, and for all that we perform worse in indices of mortality, and control of chronic disease.

. . .

So, after seeing some data on more than the few horror stories from health systems around the world, are you convinced that universal systems will mean longer wait times? Poorer care? More expensive care? I believe the data suggests more people around the world in these systems experience less of these problems than those of us in the US. We spend more, almost twice as much as any other country. Despite that, our wait times for physicians are worse, we pay far more out of pocket for prescriptions and copays than any other system, we spend more on administration of health care than any other country, we have more people who avoid seeing the doctor for fear of costs, and we are more likely to say we want our system scrapped. In an update to this analysis [2] the Commonwealth fund found that in deaths which were amenable to health care interventions the US performed worse than the other 18 industrialized countries to which it was compared. If we performed as well as one of the top three countries, we would eliminate about 100,000 excess deaths a year. Which is the real horror story?

They've followed that up with individual posts on the healthcare system of a given country. So far they've done Australia, The Netherlands, Germany, and France. It's an interesting read.

Heretic wrote:

In light of this report which found that US healthcare premiums cost an extra $1,000 because of the uninsured, if figured I should post this.

I've spoken out about this for years and am in favor of mandatory health insurance for everyone. Too many people go without it simply because they're healthy and assume they wont be needing it. When they end up sick or in an accident,we all end up paying for them.

There's a good story in Time magazine this week about healthcare. They pointed out that there are drug companies in the US who spend more money on advertising than they do on research and developement. It's no wonder that our healthcare is the most expensive in the world while the quality of care we receive continues to drop.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1899873,00.html

Quote :

For one thing, Europeans spend less — about $4,000 a person less, in some cases — than Americans on health care annually, and often with better outcomes....In 2000 the World Health Organization (WHO) used statistical measures, such as life expectancy and infant mortality, to rank the world's health-care systems. France topped the rankings. In 2008, researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine followed up the WHO study by showing that France is not only a good place to stay healthy, but also a good place to be sick: of 19 industrialized nations, France has the lowest number of "amenable deaths" — fatalities that could have been prevented by good health care. (The U.S. had the highest.)

Artie60438 wrote:

Heretic wrote:

In light of this report which found that US healthcare premiums cost an extra $1,000 because of the uninsured, if figured I should post this.

I've spoken out about this for years and am in favor of mandatory health insurance for everyone. Too many people go without it simply because they're healthy and assume they wont be needing it. When they end up sick or in an accident,we all end up paying for them.

Has Obama made any indication of when this is going to happen?

paul87920 wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Heretic wrote:

In light of this report which found that US healthcare premiums cost an extra $1,000 because of the uninsured, if figured I should post this.

I've spoken out about this for years and am in favor of mandatory health insurance for everyone. Too many people go without it simply because they're healthy and assume they wont be needing it. When they end up sick or in an accident,we all end up paying for them.

Has Obama made any indication of when this is going to happen?

They're going to start as soon as Congress reconvenes and committee hearings are supposed to start next week. Obama said last Thursday "If we don't get it done this year, we're not going to get it done."

Here is a link for an easy way to contact your Congressmen and urge them to pass legislation
creating a single payer healthcare option. The link and the email were written by the Consumer's Report's and they have a good understanding of the problems of our present healthcare system. Take the time to urge Congress to approve health care reform and forward the email to your family and friends.

Consumer Reports wrote:

Now isn't the time to play games or politics with our health care! We need real solutions, not promises from the special interests who want to put their needs before yours.

The giant insurance companies are promising not to raise costs quite as much as they have, and to cover everyone, as long as we all have to buy insurance from them.

That's a great way to line their pockets, and put more middle-men between you and your doctor, but it doesn't solve our health care crisis!

To really bring costs down and get everyone covered, we need real solutions: The choice of a publicly run coverage plan that would compete with plans offered by insurance companies. Financial help for those who truly can’t afford their premiums, whether they buy a public or private plan. And tough rules to crack down on waste and abuse.

Tell Congress you expect real, affordable health insurance choices, not just what the insurance industry wants

I guess the question now is whether or not Obama will deliver on the healthcare reform he promised or if he's going to do more of this make everyone happy Republican asskissing that he does.

paul87920 wrote:

I guess the question now is whether or not Obama will deliver on the healthcare reform he promised or if he's going to do more of this make everyone happy Republican asskissing that he does.

It's people like Max Baucus D-Montana who are going to be troublesome. Personally,I'd prefer to just let the Repubs block it,rather then water it down. Then it could be used as an issue in 2010.

More from the guys at Denialism Blog. Next up was the UK, Canada and New Zealand, and then a look at the cause of excess costs.

And finally a look at Obama's plan itself: The Obama Plan - Part I.

Here's a petition you can sign showing your support for health care reform. I have included a short summary of the goals of health care reform. IMO, we must include a public option so that Americans who can't purchase insurance in the private sector have a better choice than financial ruin or not receiving care.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/organizingforhealthcarevid?source=20090721_ms

Quote :

President Obama has announced three bedrock requirements for real health care reform:

* Reduce Costs — Rising health care costs are crushing the budgets of governments, businesses, individuals and families and they must be brought under control
* Guarantee Choice — Every American must have the freedom to choose their plan and doctor – including the choice of a public insurance option
* Ensure Quality Care for All — All Americans must have quality and affordable health care

Looks like the rational thinking members of congress are throwing a stick in the spokes of the Obama/Pelosi circus...this isn't going to happen until next year, at the earliest. Now Obama has to take his snake oil show on TV tonight.

LoisLane wrote:

Looks like the rational thinking members of congress are throwing a stick in the spokes of the Obama/Pelosi circus...this isn't going to happen until next year, at the earliest. Now Obama has to take his snake oil show on TV tonight.

This reminds me of when you wingnuts were celebrating the defeat of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). All that will happen if indeed this is defeated,is that we Democrats will have some terrifically effective campaign fodder to further bury Repubs into obscurity.

Artie60438 wrote:

LoisLane wrote:

Looks like the rational thinking members of congress are throwing a stick in the spokes of the Obama/Pelosi circus...this isn't going to happen until next year, at the earliest. Now Obama has to take his snake oil show on TV tonight.

This reminds me of when you wingnuts were celebrating the defeat of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). All that will happen if indeed this is defeated,is that we Democrats will have some terrifically effective campaign fodder to further bury Repubs into obscurity.

Sounds like somebody's pissed...and it isn't JUST the Repubs!

LoisLane wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

LoisLane wrote:

Looks like the rational thinking members of congress are throwing a stick in the spokes of the Obama/Pelosi circus...this isn't going to happen until next year, at the earliest. Now Obama has to take his snake oil show on TV tonight.

This reminds me of when you wingnuts were celebrating the defeat of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). All that will happen if indeed this is defeated,is that we Democrats will have some terrifically effective campaign fodder to further bury Repubs into obscurity.

Sounds like somebody's pissed...and it isn't JUST the Repubs!

Pissed? Not hardly. As I pointed out,this is just another win-win for Democrats.

We should solve THIS problem first...

USA Today wrote:

One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

sparks wrote:

LoisLane wrote:

We should solve THIS problem first...

USA Today wrote:

One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

Wow, another sterling example of Superior European Upbringing at work. According to you, we shouldn't fix our bloated,overpriced health care system because another totally unrelated problem, illegal immigration needs to be solved? Absolutely brilliant,Lois! I wonder why none of our leaders in Congress have thought of that?

Apparently Lois never got the message that one of the things Obama ran on was health care reform.

sparks wrote:

Wow, another sterling example of Superior European Upbringing at work. According to you, we shouldn't fix our bloated,overpriced health care system because another totally unrelated problem, illegal immigration needs to be solved? Absolutely brilliant,Lois! I wonder why none of our leaders in Congress have thought of that?

No stupid. Fix illegal immigration, Social Security, and Medicare. All three of those problems are being ignored. Then fix the health care system.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on whether the healthcare bill might fail....

Quote :

“Absolutely, positively not,” “When I take this bill to the floor, it will win.”

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, Libertarian Or Independent!

Propose this in 2009:

START A BILL TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOCIAL SECURITY

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SOCIAL SECURITY:


Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions

Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.

You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.

In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.

For all practical purposes their plan works like this:

When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost o f living adjustments..

For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7, 800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275, 000.00 during the last years of their lives.

This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries.

Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.

Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA..! ZILCH....

This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;

"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK "!

From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer). We can expect to get an average of
$1,000 per month
After retirement.

Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to:

Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen.. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us
Then sit back.....

And see how fast they would fix it.

LoisLane wrote:

----------------------------------

SOCIAL SECURITY:

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions

Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.

Do you ever fact check anything before you post? This bogus e-mail has been going around for more than 6 years.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

If you're actually interested in the retirement benefits of our Senators, then why not take a couple of minutes to look them up instead of posting something that's obviously bogus?

The link below provides all the info about their retirement benefits...

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30631.pdf

I think it is really sad that a Senator whose father was such an outstanding Democrat has chosen to sell out the millions of Indiana voters who trusted him to represent our interests in the Senate. Hundreds of American die everyday because they can't afford health care. Senator Evan Bayh is an example of a politician who has been bought and paid for. It is amazing to me that he can tell us with a straight face that the $2.1 million dollars his wife received in the last three years serving on the boards of health care companies has no influence on his votes to fix our health care system.
http://www.post-trib.com/news/elections/1686061,susanbayh0727.article

sparks wrote:

I think it is really sad that a Senator whose father was such an outstanding Democrat has chosen to sell out the millions of Indiana voters who trusted him to represent our interests in the Senate. Hundreds of American die everyday because they can't afford health care. Senator Evan Bayh is an example of a politician who has been bought and paid for. It is amazing to me that he can tell us with a straight face that the $2.1 million dollars his wife received in the last three years serving on the boards of health care companies has no influence on his votes to fix our health care system.
http://www.post-trib.com/news/elections/1686061,susanbayh0727.article

Yeah. Well do you have any proof that his wife's associations have had an effect on any of his votes on legislation? I certainly haven't read anything that suggests that Bayh is going to oppose health care insurance reform, but perhaps I missed it.

If you have any links that prove your assertions, please post them. Thanks!

Scorpion wrote:

sparks wrote:

I think it is really sad that a Senator whose father was such an outstanding Democrat has chosen to sell out the millions of Indiana voters who trusted him to represent our interests in the Senate. Hundreds of American die everyday because they can't afford health care. Senator Evan Bayh is an example of a politician who has been bought and paid for. It is amazing to me that he can tell us with a straight face that the $2.1 million dollars his wife received in the last three years serving on the boards of health care companies has no influence on his votes to fix our health care system.
http://www.post-trib.com/news/elections/1686061,susanbayh0727.article

Yeah. Well do you have any proof that his wife's associations have had an effect on any of his votes on legislation? I certainly haven't read anything that suggests that Bayh is going to oppose health care insurance reform, but perhaps I missed it.

If you have any links that prove your assertions, please post them. Thanks!

In addition to the $2.1 million dollars his wife has accepted from health care companies, Senator Bayh himself received $500,000 in campaign contributions in 2008.Here is a link where Senator Bayh is quoted as saying that he is "agnostic" about including a public option as part of health care reform. IMO, truly reforming health care must include a public option. What I should have said is that while Senator Bayh does support some health care reforms, he is opposed to including a public option as part of the reform. I believe his position stems from all the campaign contributions he has received from corporations connected with healthcare, along with the millions his wife has received.

Today marks 44 years since Medicare was created. Medicare has made a huge impact by giving all of our senior citizens access to health care. This year, we need to expand that coverage to all Americans.
Read more here about steps you can take to help make it happen.

Quote :

Celebrate Medicare’s 44th Birthday by showing Congress and President Obama that unions, doctors, nurses, seniors, faith groups, and Americans of every stripe support single-payer healthcare.

The best way to save this system is to expand it and make it a truly single-payer system by removing the for-profit interests.