new, new school issue.

LoisLane wrote:

sparks wrote:

It sounds like your daughter is doing really well at Hammond High school. However, I would like to point out that someone in every school has to be number 1 and that ranking does not necessarily indicate that they are receiving a quality education. A student at Bishop Noll ranked #50 will outperform a #1 student from a typical urban school because the level of classwork at Bishop Noll is far more demanding. We have quite a few friends who have children in college and the students who are performing the best are the ones who attended private high schools. The private schools did a better job of teaching students the skills,study habits and social skills required to compete in college.

"How about a link"

This story in today's Post-Tribune reveals just how serious the problems facing urban school districts are.The interim superindent of East Chicago's school system stepped aside after the school board took issue with some of his public remarks. A public school system that has 16 year students in 7th grade is never going to compete academically with private schools.

Quote :

http://www.post-trib.com/news/lake/1493768,livovich.article
After only a month on the job, Michael Livovich left his position as interim superintendent for East Chicago schools on Monday.
Livovich and the School Board could not come to an agreement on a contract, but he said the move was not related to money.
"I need certain terms and the ability to lead," Livovich said.
"I wish them well. I give them the benefit of the doubt.""They were unhappy that I mentioned publicly, that we have 11-year-olds in second grade and 16-year-olds in 7th grade, but that's a matter of public record," Livovich said. "I operated on Friday in an open, honest and transparent manner. I don't know how to be any different."

The irony here is not lost on me. They went from a cop as a superintendent to an interim they are not pleased with for telling the truth about the failings of the system to actually teach. EC schools haven't been about education for years IMO. They're just a political gravy train.

Some might want to argue that EC schools are kinda like a pre-jail in a cowboy police state city.

LoisLane wrote:

sparks wrote:

It sounds like your daughter is doing really well at Hammond High school. However, I would like to point out that someone in every school has to be number 1 and that ranking does not necessarily indicate that they are receiving a quality education. A student at Bishop Noll ranked #50 will outperform a #1 student from a typical urban school because the level of classwork at Bishop Noll is far more demanding. We have quite a few friends who have children in college and the students who are performing the best are the ones who attended private high schools. The private schools did a better job of teaching students the skills,study habits and social skills required to compete in college.

"How about a link"

Before my post was edited, I had proclaimed that the above "off limits" poster didn't know what he was talking about, again. Only I was sort of "matter of fact" about it. Bishop Noll has just as many if not more problems than your average high school. As far as performance, I am a firm believer if the parents are involved with their kids education, they will excel. Tiger, you are doing an admirable job, and don't let anyone say or diminish your efforts.

I can't speak to the state of BNI today but as a Noll grad I can say that while perhaps not true that a 50th Noll student was as good or better as a public school #1 student in general terms the Noll students did have the better learning. In fact I was amazed at what some students in public schools didn't know despite having a higher GPA. So to that general point I think there's probably an air of truth.

It sounds like your daughter is doing really well at Hammond High school. However, I would like to point out that someone in every school has to be number 1 and that ranking does not necessarily indicate that they are the only ones receiving a quality education, Sparks. A lot of kids may rank a point or two below the number one. I can't believe you said that to Tiger. There are many kids just as successful in different degrees. Sparks, do you have kids? Or just own some electrical wirea in a variety of colors?
A student at Bishop Noll ranked #50 will outperform a #1 student from a typical urban school because the level of classwork at Bishop Noll is far more demanding. We have quite a few friends who have children in college and the students who are performing the best are the ones who attended private high schools. The private schools did a better job of teaching students the skills,study habits and social skills required to compete in college."Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." ~ The Dalai Lama
sparks
Senior Member


You know what Sparks? By your calculations, everyone at St. Victors Catholic grade school, attended an ancient school building. By your calculations, there would have been very few at the "top level" based on the age of the building, etc. They didn't even have a "buzz-in" system back then, until one tragedy at another school, in another state, invoked a parent to install a security system.

Those kids that all along attended St. Victor's, in a decaying building, with parents paying outrageous amounts of tuition, felt it was worth it. We worked with the teachers. We volunteered, along with our children to plant flowers, host fundraisers, etc.

It wasn't the building; it lacked soooo much. But at the end, all I can say is, it was worth it. The teachers were our childrens' best friends. We were all involved in showing our children what it meant to be involved in their schools. Can you imagine today, children taking a Saturday and planting flowers around their schools? That, to me is how you weed out the kids who are serious about the school they attend. There was no A/C. During the eighties and nineties, you could see all the crank-windows open, my kids were sweating. The teachers' were sweating.

What St. Victor's taught was values. What it taught was, "Do what you have to do with fans, etc.," There never is a time when the kids don't get together and talk about how funny this teacher was, or that. Their best memories was that the teachers taught them so well, yet made light of situations, drawing their attention away about how hot it was, or how cold it was...so seriously, that they had a reunion a couple of years later, and it was reflected it the "Times".

How I wish I had the statistics of how old that building was when my kids of grade-school attended; (my sister-in-law attended her K-8th there; she's 59 now), but, the thing is, almost all those kids went on to be very successful children.

Yes, back then it was a Catholic, private school. But, the demographics changed. Those kids that went to school with my son and daughter are all successful, and when they get together, they always bring up their teachers' names, talk about the humorous times, something I doubt kids around here talk about.

Bottom line, the teachers made the difference in their lives. They had no a/c, no proper heating/ventilation, etc. Almost all of those kids went on to live successful lives. Their scores exceeded most and all public schools.

They didn't stay in Cal City, either. Most are all spread in every state but IL. Those that remained in Il are up in Gurnee, out west, or way away.
You can change the building...but the building doesn't change the child or the teacher.

Tiger, I can't agree more on Bishop Noll. It was so bad back when my son was to go there. Most of his classmates relocated with relatives...I was shocked to learn back then that they had "guards". I didn't subject my kids to that, nor would I. I had the option; I know you didn't, but I did what I did.

I no way would send my kid to a school in Hammond. By the way, if you plan to build in Sheffield, it's swamp land. The upgrade now, is to go ALL GREEN. Until Hammond learns GREEN, the it will remain flat. That's the future, and that's the only way out of the housing mess. Go green. Learn it, or get out.

If we need to replace buildings, we should entice our students to learn the new "green", along with the contractors. That's the future. If there are any new buildings to be built, the students should be part of the process to learn about the "future", and also the guys who want their hands on the job of building, should learn the "new green". No matter the perimeters of the new building. We need to introduce solar panels, and prepare the kids for the future. If you are in the building trades, you need to learn to let go of past codes and go for the future codes. Waterless waterheaters, solar panels, whatever...involved the kids in high school as you go and learn yourself to "reconstruct".

Sparks, I know you must know electric from "way back". How about taking some kids along to brush up and learn what the future calls for, instead of demanding the same old brick and mortar?

Sorry, while editing, I accidently duplicated.

I just want to say that it is parental involvement. We may not have the luxury of Nequea H.S., in Naperville, IL, but I know from my heart, no matter what school, unless it is really violent, parents need to be involved.

One thing I am thanfkful for, is that because Tiger is INVOLVED with her kid/kids - Sparks will still be figuring out the color code of wiring...while GREEN will be seeping in. His days as an electrician may call for a "brand-new education", if Indiana ever catches up.

I invite you to go to Bolingbrook where warehouses, buildings are still being built, Sparks, and try and sell your resume. You'd be in-line with the illegals.

I can speak for what I know about BNI having three kids in the school should give me some authority. I wont confirm Sparks ratio but I will say that the AP classes offered at Noll would certainly make for a better prepared student entering college then any public high school. Parent involvement is a big part of it but so is the lack of ability by the school board. Can anyone say what Dr. Watkins is doing is helping produce better prepared students or young men and women prepared to enter society at all? One walk down the halls would answer that question. The public school system is the biggest negative of this city next to its housing stock. there is no doubt the two are related!

voter3 wrote:

I can speak for what I know about BNI having three kids in the school should give me some authority. I wont confirm Sparks ratio but I will say that the AP classes offered at Noll would certainly make for a better prepared student entering college then any public high school. Parent involvement is a big part of it but so is the lack of ability by the school board. Can anyone say what Dr. Watkins is doing is helping produce better prepared students or young men and women prepared to enter society at all? One walk down the halls would answer that question. The public school system is the biggest negative of this city next to its housing stock. there is no doubt the two are related!

IMO, the 2 are not related. The SCH is a problem unto itself. Watkins could give a crap less what goes on, as long as he has his cushy job with all the perks.

UrRight, right on, on Saint Victors. My middle daughter went there for Kindergarten.
FYI, my oldest daughter went to Sacred Heart in Whiting for 6,7,8th grades. She had a learning disability, and this was the only private school that would accept her. Not only did she excell, but she ended up being a finalist in the Regional Spelling Bee and Geography Bee, TWICE !

Voter, Bishop Noll was the best school in the area for a long time. ALL 3 of my brothers graduated from there. Sadly, if you look at the State Board of Educations website, you can see how the scores and graduation rate have fallen tremendously. Several surrounding school districts now have a higher graduation rate than Bishop Noll.

voter3 wrote:

I can speak for what I know about BNI having three kids in the school should give me some authority. I wont confirm Sparks ratio but I will say that the AP classes offered at Noll would certainly make for a better prepared student entering college then any public high school. Parent involvement is a big part of it but so is the lack of ability by the school board. Can anyone say what Dr. Watkins is doing is helping produce better prepared students or young men and women prepared to enter society at all? One walk down the halls would answer that question. The public school system is the biggest negative of this city next to its housing stock. there is no doubt the two are related!

tiger1 wrote:

IMO, the 2 are not related. The SCH is a problem unto itself. Watkins could give a crap less what goes on, as long as he has his cushy job with all the perks.

I agree with Voter that the school system does have a direct relation to blighted housing in Hammond.

The National Assoc. of Realtors wrote:

http://www.realtor.org/library/library/fg307
Of all the local neighborhood amenities that can influence a buyer's decision to purchase a home, proximity to good quality schools is one of the most influential. According to the 2007 National Association of REALTORS Profile of Home Buyers and Sellers, schools were listed as a deciding factor for 28% of home buyers.

Since homebuyers do use school quality to decide where to buy, poor public schools have a negative impact on decisions to purchase,pushing down home values in Hammond.

Tiger1 wrote:

Voter, Bishop Noll was the best school in the area for a long time. ALL 3 of my brothers graduated from there. Sadly, if you look at the State Board of Educations website, you can see how the scores and graduation rate have fallen tremendously. Several surrounding school districts now have a higher graduation rate than Bishop Noll.

Here is the website.
http://mustang.doe.state.in.us/SEARCH/benchmark.cfm?subnum=1&hidden=B970&ip95=checked&istavg=checked&colobg=FFFFFF[i]
The facts don't back up any of your claims. For example,here are the ISTEP scores for Bishop Noll for the last ten years,where is this dramatic drop you claim?
ISTEP Avg Pct Pass - All Tested Grades E/LA and Math
year Bishop Noll
2008-09- 71.0%
2007-08- 73.2%
2006-07- 75.2%
2005-06- 76.4%
2004-05- 71.8%
2003-04- 70.4%
2002-03- 76.5%
2001-02- 68.4%
2000-01- 75.1%
1999-00- 77.4%
1998-99- 80.5%
1997-98- 70.3%

Admin wrote:

It is a shame that some people apparently have grudges so strong that they will lie to support their grudges.

-Admin

The remark was not made on this forum which is why I didn't post a link.

Mr. Admin, wouldn't an automatic reciprocal "ignore" feature be possibly implemented? That way, when one poster puts another one on ignore, it would automatically be in effect for both.

Back to the topic. Currently, the SCH is $ 330,848,390 in debt. If the new high school is built, per the previous figures given by the SCH, the total cost for the new high school alone, with interest, will be over 400 MILLION dollars, payable over 25 years. This would put the debt load of the SCH to over 3/4 of a BILLION dollars total. We cannot afford this. They need to pay down their debt, and rethink their plans.

Tiger1 wrote:

Mr. Admin, wouldn't an automatic reciprocal "ignore" feature be possibly implemented? That way, when one poster puts another one on ignore, it would automatically be in effect for both.

Except for the fact that the other poster would have no say in the matter,which makes it a ridiculous idea,imo.

To offer another suggestion ...how about sticking to the topic! Even if you were called a name, pointing out your knowledge of the situation will weigh heavier then any insult. Remember...WE ARE FREE!!!!!!!

voter: Why will a NEW high school in Hammond cost $400 million?

$100 mil to build it, $200 mil to finance it, and $100 mil to promote it to the point where voters will approve it no matter what just to be done with hearing about it.

LoisLane wrote:

voter: Why will a NEW high school in Hammond cost $400 million?

Excellent question but I would direct it towards Dr. Watkins and the other school board members. I have always thought full consolidation is the way to go. One High School for everyone! Including state of the art sports facilities and the land it takes to have them. I dont agree with the location but lets face it there are not a lot of places to build something so large.

I don't think the board will go with a single school so the point is likely moot. But the bigger issue on space is how much space to use for sports. You could put the actual classrooms in a number of locations, the old NIPSCO/ Sterks area, Wolf Lake, River Park, or even right where HHS already is, for example. But then there's the sports fields and the board's desire to be overly ambitious in that area.

Myself I see high school sports going the way of ice skating. At one time lots of people in Hammond skated but today few care to even learn how. But some still do. And look at how many bowling alleys Hammond once had but interest has now petered out. The only thing keeping bowling alleys open today is the bar revenues.

I don't wish to sound like there will be no desire at all for sports in the near future but it certainly won't be high enough of a priority to fill up 20 acres on sports fields alone.

If you are going to combine these kids into one school there will be a definite need for sports facilities. You may not hear a lot about Hammonds high school sports programs but that is because of the low enrollment numbers in so many high schools. That changes when you consolidate! Munster and andrean are in the sports section all the time because they are in the 4A or 3A category while all Hammond schools are mostly 2A and cant provide the number of athletes to compete against the bigger schools

I agree with the logic but remember that school extra curricular activities are not an absolute right. It's just something we choose to have. Schools around the country have been forced to give up school bands, for example, due partly to finances and partly due to student apathy. And I would argue that for the non athlete such non physical activities are of equal importance to them.

Just so Hammond knows they are not alone....

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/1500879,4_1_JO29_JOLIETGRADE_S1.article

Our problems exist everywhere. Especially in Lockport, where kids are splitting the day - what was the states' lottery set up for again? I can't remember.

Also, seems like the school board (parents) run the school. Not the ones that went and earned their degrees. That's the problem. Only those holding degrees, working at the school should make up the board. Let the parents' sit in the audience like they made my parent's and school friends' did back where we never experienced anything like it.

I guess it is because if you serve on the school board, it doesn't call for brains...and you get paid for no brains...that's why we turn out ding-dongs for graduates. Blame the political side of being on a school board.

When I PAID for my kids' education, they ANSWERED ME. Not the other way around.

So you know, I feel that Science labs are just as important as baseball fields.

Ah! But only if there are enough students who understand math & science well enough to benefit from them. The biggest contention some of us have is the failings of the learning system within the bricks & mortar. But we really never adequately address that greater concern.

That is my point. If you consolidate the high schools you would have enough kids to warrant such things as science labs band rooms and field houses. as it is now you are lucky to have enough kids to warrant use of a room for a chess club

voter3 wrote:

That is my point. If you consolidate the high schools you would have enough kids to warrant such things as science labs band rooms and field houses. as it is now you are lucky to have enough kids to warrant use of a room for a chess club

Putting all the kids together into one or two schools will not make a differance. The kids do not want to do anything. My middle daughter graduated HHS last June. Her Freshmen year, she was in Cross Country. They had barely enough kids for a team. Her Sophmore year, they had only 3 kids show up. They cancelled Cross Country. Hammond High has in excess of 900 kids, but yet they cannot get enough kids to participate in many extra-curricular activities.

Tiger1 wrote:

Hispanic Hero wrote:

It will never pass on a referendum vote, it is dead in the water.

With the economy the way it is, this will never pass. Unless the SCH can get the money from Obama, this thing has about as much chance as a snowball in hades.

Tiger, what happens if they get the stimulous money to build? After they build, who is gonna BE AROUND to pay property taxes to support it?

Boy, they just don't think ahead.