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 Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.

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sparks



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PostSubject: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/9/2009, 6:41 am

http://www.speakerseries2009.com/
The Chicago Theater is presenting a series of talks by different speakers. One by Al Gore caught my interest. VIP tickets are available which include the opportunity to be photographed with Al. Way too cool!
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/11/2009, 5:11 pm

See, we just don't have all of the data to make an educated hypothesis....
The only thing we DO know, is that Al Gore is making a shitload of money off of "Global Warming".

Yahoo News wrote:
Massive Greenland meltdown? Not so fast, say scientists

by Marlowe Hood Marlowe Hood

Sun Jan 11, 1:21 pm ET

PARIS
(AFP) – The recent acceleration of glacier melt-off in Greenland, which
some scientists fear could dramatically raise sea levels, may only be a
temporary phenomenon, according to a study published Sunday.
Researchers in Britain and the United States devised computer models to
test three scenarios that could account for rapid -- by the standards
applied to glaciers -- loss of mass from the Helheim Glacier, one of Greenland's largest.

Two were based on changes caused directly by global warming:
an increase in the amount of water that greases the underbelly of the
glacier as it slides toward the sea, and a general thinning due to
melting.

By contrast, the third computer model -- which hypothesised
that melt-off was triggered by changing conditions in the confined area
where the glacier meets the sea -- fit like a glove, he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/scienceclimatewarmingglaciersgreenland_newsmlmmd
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/11/2009, 6:06 pm

$45 just to get in?

Yeah right.

Sorry Sparks, but if he is that concerned, he should not be charging people to hear him speak.


Incidentally the prices range from $45-$185 what a ripoff
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/11/2009, 6:55 pm

mike3775 wrote:
$45 just to get in?

Yeah right.

Sorry Sparks, but if he is that concerned, he should not be charging people to hear him speak.


Incidentally the prices range from $45-$185 what a ripoff
People pay far more than that to be packed into concerts like cattle or buy $6 beers at sporting events.
Hell, I've paid $400 to see Lynard Skynard at the Star Plaza. That included dinner,2 seats in the celebrity circle and a room.It was a great show to boot.Worth every penny.There are two other events scheduled as part of the Speaker's series, one with Bill Maher and Ann Coulter and one with Arianne Huffington,DL Hughley and Mike Huckabee. I'm sure that those shows would be awesome also.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/11/2009, 7:09 pm

Well feel free to go and waste your money

I refuse to pay to listen to a blowhard who doesn't bother making his home 100% powered by renewable energy but wants everyone else to do the same

Plus its hard for me to listen to him plead for the poor and downtrodden, when he lives in mansion and has been out of touch with reality for ever


Did you sure you shed a tear for the poor little polar bear swimming to the little meager chunk of ice in his scam movie(even though it was fake?)

Oh and those other prices are:
Bill Maher & Ann Coulter 450-$180 wow why so expensive? guess they only want the people who are not suffering in this economic downturn to listen to them speak. I wonder if they will let me in wearing jeans and a T-shirt? I bet not

A.Cooper,A.Huffington,DL Hughley & Mike Huckabee- same prices as above



So Sparks, which one are you going to?



Sorry, but unless it is free, let them blow the hot air all they want abpout global warming and how Bush is the devil
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/11/2009, 7:35 pm

mike3775 wrote:
Well feel free to go and waste your money

I refuse to pay to listen to a blowhard who doesn't bother making his home 100% powered by renewable energy but wants everyone else to do the same

Plus its hard for me to listen to him plead for the poor and downtrodden, when he lives in mansion and has been out of touch with reality for ever


Did you sure you shed a tear for the poor little polar bear swimming to the little meager chunk of ice in his scam movie(even though it was fake?)

Oh and those other prices are:
Bill Maher & Ann Coulter 450-$180 wow why so expensive? guess they only want the people who are not suffering in this economic downturn to listen to them speak. I wonder if they will let me in wearing jeans and a T-shirt? I bet not

A.Cooper,A.Huffington,DL Hughley & Mike Huckabee- same prices as above



So Sparks, which one are you going to?



Sorry, but unless it is free, let them blow the hot air all they want abpout global warming and how Bush is the devil
We'll book a hotel downtown, have an early dinner and listen to Al Gore for sure. I realize that you already know everything, but I enjoy expanding my horizons and learning. BTW, your characterizations of Al Gore and his beliefs are simplistic to say the least. Our country could use a few more leaders like him.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 9:22 am

Sorry but I do not see a counter to his position

Kinda hard to expand your horizon when you only hear one side of the story

Where are the scientists that refute what he says?


Oh thats right, they are not allowed to participate in a global warming seminar, amazing how he doesn;t allow the opposite views to be mentioned on his racket tour
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 9:58 am

mike3775 wrote:
Sorry but I do not see a counter to his position

Kinda hard to expand your horizon when you only hear one side of the story

Where are the scientists that refute what he says?


Oh thats right, they are not allowed to participate in a global warming seminar, amazing how he doesn;t allow the opposite views to be mentioned on his racket tour
Heretic responded to your comment about opposite views being mentioned far more eloquently than I can in another thread in this category.
Heretic wrote:
Scientific skepticism is a healthy thing. Scientists should always challenge themselves to expand their knowledge, improve their understanding and refine their theories. Yet this isn't what happens in global warming skepticism. Skeptics vigorously criticise any evidence that supports anthropogenic global warming and yet eagerly, even blindly embrace any argument, op-ed piece, blog or study that refutes global warming.
Mike, even though you are fairly young, your views are very much like an old person who is set in his ways and is not willing to learn or accept change. Luckily, for the future of the planet, much of the rest of the country does understand the importance of a "greener" future and is willing to make changes.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 10:47 am

No, when I go to seminars and debates, I want to be able to hear both sides of the story in one sitting

I hate only hearing one side of the story

John Coleman challenged Al Gore to debate the merits of Global Warming, how come Al has not taken him up on it?

I would pay to that type of debate, but for some reason Al is afraid to.
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 2:19 pm

mike3775 wrote:
No, when I go to seminars and debates, I want to be able to hear both sides of the story in one sitting

I hate only hearing one side of the story

John Coleman challenged Al Gore to debate the merits of Global Warming, how come Al has not taken him up on it?

I would pay to that type of debate, but for some reason Al is afraid to.
Wow, you are unwilling to to pay to hear a Nobel Peace winner speak, but if he were to appear with a nutcase like John Coleman, you would buy a ticket? That's kind of messed up. The reason you will not hear Al Gore debate someone like John Coleman is because Al Gore is not going to legitimatize his argument. The evidence supporting Global Warming is far too strong to allow people like John Coleman to continue to put doubts in the public's mind regarding the seriousness of the problem.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 3:55 pm

mike3775 wrote:
Where are the scientists that refute what he says?

There aren't any. Or at least, there aren't any that are relevant. They exist along the same pseudoscientific fringe as 9/11 Twoofers, flat-earthers, and creationists, content to peddle their wars to an ignorant and otherwise uninformed public through phony documentaries, bogus commercials, op-eds, magazines, books... instead of publishing in a scientific journal where real scientific debate occurs.

mike3775 wrote:
John Coleman challenged Al Gore to debate the merits of Global Warming, how come Al has not taken him up on it?

It would be far, far more impressive if he challenged anyone that actually mattered...

I'm hoping him and Monckton finally sue Gore and Hansen like they've been threatening to for years. It'll do to them what Kitzmiller v. Dover did to creationists. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 5:05 pm

We will be debating this again in a million years, well not us but someone.

Especially when they conclude that all that "green stuff" we did is found to harm the planet(dang it, thought we did the right thing).

I'm not sure...

but the arrogance on both sides is disconcerting.

and by the way why would ya wanna sue Hansen , dem boyz rock.LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 6:03 pm

Heretic wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
Where are the scientists that refute what he says?

There aren't any. Or at least, there aren't any that are relevant. They exist along the same pseudoscientific fringe as 9/11 Twoofers, flat-earthers, and creationists, content to peddle their wars to an ignorant and otherwise uninformed public through phony documentaries, bogus commercials, op-eds, magazines, books... instead of publishing in a scientific journal where real scientific debate occurs.


Funny the same could bve said for what Al gore does as well

If his scientists are legit, why are the ones who are not on his side simply dismissed as the fringe?
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Face

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 6:13 pm

The problem I have with Al Gore, is he does talk the talk, but as Mike said doesn't walk the walk. This man is very superficial. How can you take a man seriously when he doens't do what he preaches? Hypocratic don't you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 7:01 pm

my take on Al is , I'm against harming the planet give me a prize( i lost the election, dammit give me somethin').

I'm against rape NOW should salute me.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/12/2009, 10:10 pm

tater wrote:
We will be debating this again in a million years, well not us but someone.

We're still "debating" the existence of evolution and HIV. Not all debates are valid.

tater wrote:
Especially when they conclude that all that "green stuff" we did is found to harm the planet(dang it, thought we did the right thing).

The existence of AGW is not predicated upon the acceptance of its proposed solutions.

mike3775 wrote:
Funny the same could bve said for what Al gore does as well

And skepticism of AGW would be justified if it consisted of only statements by Al Gore, but as I've pointed out numerous times, this isn't the case. Resounding scientific support from organizations and scientists all over the world, equally as much support as evolution or any other prevailing theory, in addition to science and research going back 100 years. But that hilariously never gets mentioned, because of this ridiculous fixation on Al Gore...

mike3775 wrote:
If his scientists are legit, why are the ones who are not on his side simply dismissed as the fringe?

For the same reason we dismiss creationists and flat earthers. They are.

But seriously... "his scientists"? Shocked

I wrote:
The infamous IPCC, the largest peer reviewed study ever done:
Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis
Climate Change 2007: Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability
Climate Change 2007: Mitigation of Climate Change

The "Conspirators"
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies
the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
the National Academy of Sciences
the Environmental Protection Agency
the American Geophysical Union
the American Institute of Physics
the National Center for Atmospheric Research
the American Meteorological Society
the National Research Council
the US Geological Survey
the US Dept of Agriculture
the vast majority of peer review
as well as independent research
the Pentagon
the White House
Scientific American
Department of Atmospheric Sciences at Texas A&M
the American Physical Society
Jason Defense Advisory Group
the Center for Naval Analyses

But that's not all. A far more comprehensive and exhaustive list can be found here (and here).

Honestly... do you really believe that asshat is that powerful? Rolling Eyes

Face wrote:
The problem I have with Al Gore, is he does talk the talk, but as Mike said doesn't walk the walk. This man is very superficial. How can you take a man seriously when he doens't do what he preaches? Hypocratic don't you think?

Agreed. Which is why in the several years I've been debating this topic, I've never needed to cite Al Gore to justify an argument. Every scientific organization in our government has resources and information available on AGW; it's far easier to cite those than him.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/13/2009, 1:27 am

Oh so all the other scientists that have published papers refuting what his scientists have stated are stated to be on the fringe


Like I said, Al Gore refuses to have debates with the other half of the scientific community

He only wants his side to be heard.

And like I said earlier, until Mr. Everything must be green and run on renewable energy has a house that is 100% run on renewable energy, I cannot take him seriously.

He has the money to be able to adapt his mansion in Tennessee to be 100% renewable, why has he not put his money where his mouth is and set the example that he wants others to follow? I guess he is not super cereal on it(some of you may get that reference)
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/13/2009, 5:35 am

mike3775 wrote:
Oh so all the other scientists that have published papers refuting what his scientists have stated are stated to be on the fringe

You're making the assumption that such papers even exist. Sorry, but that simply isn't the case, either. That's certainly far more likely than every scientific organization with national or international standing, including those in our own government, ignoring such "overwhelming" research as part of a massive global conspiracy.

I've never been one for conspiracy theories...

mike3775 wrote:
Like I said, Al Gore refuses to have debates with the other half of the scientific community

And like I said, if any of said "skeptics" were honestly interested in the science instead of the publicity, they'd challenge someone that actually mattered.

mike3775 wrote:
He only wants his side to be heard.

And? I don't think the CDC needs to waste time and money reevaluating the merits of evolution when deciding how to respond to the next dangerous flu or anthrax outbreak. I don't think NASA needs to hire flat earthers or geocentrists prior to their next shuttle launch. I don't think the AMA needs to reconsider Miasma theory over Germ theory. Science does work by consensus, and at a certain point "debate" simply becomes beating a dead horse; a waste of time and money. We get to a point and say,"No, we've already discussed that; we're not wasting the time. Unless there's new information, we can move on." That's especially true when we're dealing with policy.

mike3775 wrote:
And like I said earlier, until Mr. Everything must be green and run on renewable energy has a house that is 100% run on renewable energy, I cannot take him seriously.

Don't care. I've never cited him as a source for science in these discussions and his name certainly wasn't on the list above that you largely ignored.

mike3775 wrote:
He has the money to be able to adapt his mansion in Tennessee to be 100% renewable, why has he not put his money where his mouth is and set the example that he wants others to follow? I guess he is not super cereal on it(some of you may get that reference)

Don't care. His hypocrisy, no matter the magnitude, does not invalidate the science.

But I'd be interested to hear what reasons you have for being skeptic of AGW, assuming its based on more than "Al Gore has farty pants".
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/14/2009, 12:29 pm

Still waiting for you to logically explain why scientists who say Global Warming is true, are legitimate scientists, while the scientists who dispute them, are on the fringe and not legitimate as well.


Does that mean anyone who disagree's with your scientists views are also crackpots and on the fringe?
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/14/2009, 5:40 pm

mike3775 wrote:
Still waiting for you to logically explain why scientists who say Global Warming is true, are legitimate scientists, while the scientists who dispute them, are on the fringe and not legitimate as well.


Does that mean anyone who disagree's with your scientists views are also crackpots and on the fringe?


That is the company line Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/14/2009, 6:05 pm

Thats basically what I am getting

Just because 1 scientist says this, and another disagrees, does not make the one who disagrees a crackpot or on the fringe, but that's basically all Sparks and Heretic have stated ad nauseum so far
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/15/2009, 3:47 am

mike3775 wrote:
Still waiting for you to logically explain why scientists who say Global Warming is true, are legitimate scientists, while the scientists who dispute them, are on the fringe and not legitimate as well.

I never said that. I said legitimate scientists are the ones doing legitimate science; i.e. doing actual research and publishing the results for peer review in reputable scientific journals of the field in question where scientists in the related field can openly evaluate their work. It's the lack of representation in peer review that makes a theory a fringe theory. And again, your scientists aren't doing peer reviewed research. They've willfully resigned themselves to the kiddie pool, the endless and exhaustive sea of op-eds, books, talk shows, bogus documentaries, which are conveniently devoid of any and all fact checking and deliberately target an ill equipped and all too prone to juvenile conspiracy theories public. This shouldn't be news to you. It's the trademark of pseudoscience and standard operating procedure for decades for every creationist, flat earther, geocentrist, HIV/AIDs denialist, and one everyone should remember... the tobacco industry.

And I do find it interesting that someone alleging massive international conspiracy involving the American government as well as the entire peer review process is complaining about logic...

mike3775 wrote:
Does that mean anyone who disagree's with your scientists views are also crackpots and on the fringe?

Depends. If they've never researched the topic and are merely regurgitating the mental diarrhea found in most skeptic op-eds, then no... they're simply uninformed. But if they have researched the topic, form the basic educational material on the subject provided by our government and various universities to the litany of the peer reviewed articles and reports themselves, and still maintain it's a massive conspiracy headed by Al Gore (of all people) in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, if they blindly parrot such arguments after they've been repeatedly demonstrated to be false... then yes. Crackpot sounds reasonable. Denialist and crank are probably better.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/15/2009, 6:31 am

I'm noticing "green" products have now become a marketing tool. Manfactorers can make a slight improvement on their product to make it more environment friendly and stamping it "green" when the product still has harmful effects. I'm getting the feeling that many consumers don't have a real good grasp on what this term means, or the impact that it has. But this is a definite improvment over the crap that has been allowed to be dumped into our waterways and atmosphere for decades.

It's funny that the "tree huggers" from years back who were being ridiculed were right along.
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/15/2009, 6:43 am

Maybe they need to stop all these efforts to thwart global warming. Ever since after they started it's been getting colder and colder. Or so it seems to me. At this rate in another decade or so they'll be back to worrying about global cooling again. Razz

You have a point about everybody trying to get on the green bandwagon. Reminds me of the kick to call everything on the grocery shelf "light," even if it contained more calories than the original. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Al Gore to speak in Chicago April 1.   1/15/2009, 7:19 am

Heretic wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
Still waiting for you to logically explain why scientists who say Global Warming is true, are legitimate scientists, while the scientists who dispute them, are on the fringe and not legitimate as well.

I never said that. I said legitimate scientists are the ones doing legitimate science; i.e. doing actual research and publishing the results for peer review in reputable scientific journals of the field in question where scientists in the related field can openly evaluate their work. It's the lack of representation in peer review that makes a theory a fringe theory. And again, your scientists aren't doing peer reviewed research. They've willfully resigned themselves to the kiddie pool, the endless and exhaustive sea of op-eds, books, talk shows, bogus documentaries, which are conveniently devoid of any and all fact checking and deliberately target an ill equipped and all too prone to juvenile conspiracy theories public. This shouldn't be news to you. It's the trademark of pseudoscience and standard operating procedure for decades for every creationist, flat earther, geocentrist, HIV/AIDs denialist, and one everyone should remember... the tobacco industry.

And I do find it interesting that someone alleging massive international conspiracy involving the American government as well as the entire peer review process is complaining about logic...

mike3775 wrote:
Does that mean anyone who disagree's with your scientists views are also crackpots and on the fringe?

Depends. If they've never researched the topic and are merely regurgitating the mental diarrhea found in most skeptic op-eds, then no... they're simply uninformed. But if they have researched the topic, form the basic educational material on the subject provided by our government and various universities to the litany of the peer reviewed articles and reports themselves, and still maintain it's a massive conspiracy headed by Al Gore (of all people) in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, if they blindly parrot such arguments after they've been repeatedly demonstrated to be false... then yes. Crackpot sounds reasonable. Denialist and crank are probably better.

As I have said before I have issue with the time frames being reviewed to come to their conclusions. I know from geology class that the earth's magnetic fields work in cycles of about 500 years based on rock formations. And we know that magnetism between the earth, the moon, and the sun effects tides and weather. 500 years ago we didn't know much of anything comparatively about magnetism, or temperature, or weather. And consider the accounts of Leaf Erickson being able to farm in Greenland for a few years until it became too cold. My point is that we go through cycle patterns and don't have enough accurate data from these earlier periods. For that matter we can really only go back maybe 100 years or so in hurricane data or earthquakes. On a scale of 6,000 years of recorded history 100 years is but a blip.

Yes I agree that we should work to curb needless pollution such as some unregulated foreign smokestacks and throwing junk in streams & rivers. That should be a no brainier. Where I take issue is with some of the more extreme claims that the earth is doomed if we don't stop using gasoline even though a single volcano can have a bigger effect on the ozone hole than many years of industrial pollution combined.

Also you need to consider that the earth has been generally thawing gradually overall ever since the ice age. Nothing we can possibly do will stop the long term thawing, so man's efforts to eliminate "global warming" in the way that it is being portrayed is disingenuous. It will never happen!

But exactly what really will happen as the earth continues to slowly warm? If the axis of the earth were to shift could it be that long term the earth would experience less weather extremes? And because this process is gradual I have a feeling we can endure the process. You don't have to believe in the soon return of Christ to set all things right to see that this "global warming" situation is not nearly as dire as some would have us to believe.
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