Trayvon Martin Death Investigation

happy jack wrote:

Yes, edge, I've heard the alleged "fucking coons" recording.

Yes, I'm sure that is your 'take' and your 'perception', however if was "an entirely entirely inconclusive piece of crap," I really doubt that there would be a civil rights violations investigation by the FBI.

Quote :

If you played it backward, do you think he might really be saying, "Paul is dead - I buried Paul"?

Nope, I hear "fucking coons" as clear as a bell, forwards and backwards.

happy jack wrote:

I would very, very, very, very much like you to provide me with the link that asserts that the FBI investigation is based on that recording.

No link, that's just my 'perception" and nothing more.

Quote :

Incidentally, from the link you provided:

This past weekend, two independent forensics experts told media outlets that screams for help recorded in a 911 call on the evening of Martin's death belonged to the late teen and not gunman George Zimmerman.

That is impossible to ascertain without something to compare it to.

Right, you know this because you are a forensics experts.
Don't worry jack, I'm sure the FBI can figure it all out.

happy jack wrote:

That is impossible to ascertain without something to compare it to.

uh huh
Well let's see, that makes TWO audio forensics experts v one smart ass conservative George Zimmerman apologist.

Quote :

Audio Forensics Expert Tells CNN How He Knows Zimmerman Wasn’t One Screaming For Help
by James Crugnale April 2nd, 2012

On CNN’s Starting Point, Soledad O’Brien interviewed audio forensics expert Tom Owen, chair emeritus at the American Board of Record Evidence, who used voice identification software to rule out George Zimmerman as the one screaming for help on the 911 calls the night he shot Trayvon Martin.

O’Brien asked Owen how the process worked. “Soledad, it’s done in a manner in which there’s a comparison made between a known and unknown voice,” Owen explained. “In this instance, George Zimmerman is a known voice. He identified himself on the 9-1-1 call. So we know who that is, and then we have the voice of the person who is screaming, and we consider that the unknown, because we really don’t know who that is at this point.”

“How is it possible to compare two voices when the context is so different?” O’Brien asked Owen “One is shrieking and the other one is speaking almost quietly into the phone.”

“Well, the difference between the old comparisons where you had to have verbatim speech are the people saying the same thing,” Owen explained. “And today, the biometric software is able to define three different things, spectographic information, pitch information and what we refer to as gaussian variation, or intra-speaker variability and how much between the words people speak and so-forth. The software at use at NSA, CIA and FBI is able to do that and do that efficiently with no subjectivity whatsoever being thrown into the mix. That’s what this particular software does.”

“So from your software, what was your takeaway?” O’Brien continued.

Owen demonstrated how his audio equipment was able to let him draw a conclusion from the 9-1-1 tapes.

“Well, let me just do this for you quickly. We have the tape of Zimmerman, we have the tape of the screams and then we can start the comparison, and basically it’s going to do this comparison,” Owen pointed out. “If you can see the screen now, and it’s going to give me some false rejection rates, some false acceptance rates, and a likelihood ratio, okay. and this gray dot over here designates the very lower end of the scale, which in essence, is translated as it’s not him.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/audio-forensics-expert-tells-cnn-how-he-knows-zimmerman-wasnt-one-screaming-for-help/

and...

Quote :

Forensic Expert Examines Trayvon Martin 9-1-1 Call

Ed Primeau shares his opinion
TROY, Mich. (WJBK) - Ed Primeau is one of the world's most respected audio video forensic experts. Now, he's speaking out on the most explosive case in the country, the death of Trayvon Martin. He says the 9-1-1 calls placed on that fateful night speak volumes.

On the tapes, shooting suspect George Zimmerman claims he's the one screaming for help in the background because he says Martin attacked him and he was forced to defend himself. But, Primeau believes the call tells a very different story. He says the screams sound like they're coming from a younger male, not a 30-year-old.

His analysis supports the family's claim that Martin was actually the one screaming for help, not Zimmerman. Primeau calls his analysis an "opinion" but it's an opinion based on decades of experience and it could be the key to answering lingering questions and finding justice.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/alexis_wiley/forensic-expert-examines-trayvon-martin-9-1-1-call-20120401-rs

Quote :

No, I know this because I don't have shit for brains.

You betcha
Go ahead, step on that rake again. Tell us again how "that is impossible to ascertain without something to compare it to."

happy jack wrote:

That is impossible to ascertain without something to compare it to.

[quote="edge540"] uh huh
Well let's see, that makes TWO audio forensics experts v one smart ass conservative George Zimmerman apologist.
Go ahead, step on that rake again. Tell us again how "that is impossible to ascertain without something to compare it to."

Quote :

Audio Forensics Expert Tells CNN How He Knows Zimmerman Wasn’t One Screaming For Help
by James Crugnale April 2nd, 2012

On CNN’s Starting Point, Soledad O’Brien interviewed audio forensics expert Tom Owen, chair emeritus at the American Board of Record Evidence, who used voice identification software to rule out George Zimmerman as the one screaming for help on the 911 calls the night he shot Trayvon Martin.

O’Brien asked Owen how the process worked. “Soledad, it’s done in a manner in which there’s a comparison made between a known and unknown voice,” Owen explained. “In this instance, George Zimmerman is a known voice. He identified himself on the 9-1-1 call. So we know who that is, and then we have the voice of the person who is screaming, and we consider that the unknown, because we really don’t know who that is at this point.”

Good for you, edge – you apparently have the ability to post an article that has nothing to do with what I actually said. I am quite aware that it is possible to rule out someone’s voice (and I never claimed otherwise), but only if you have something to compare it to. What I did say, however, is that it is impossible to ascertain that a voice belongs to a specific person if you do not possess a sample of that person’s voice to compare it to.
Even your expert knows this.


Primeau calls his analysis an "opinion" ….


Watch where you’re going, edge, there’s a rake right in front of …. oops, too late (D'oh!).
Don’t say I didn’t try to warn you.
(And once again, it all comes down to not having shit for brains.)

[quote="edge540"] [Well let's see, that makes TWO audio forensics experts v one smart ass conservative George Zimmerman apologist.

Quote :

The new definition of 'apologist', courtesy of edge:

A person who does not wish to see someone tried and convicted by the media and the public for a crime he may not have committed.

happy jack wrote:

[b]Good for you, edge – you apparently have the ability to post an article that has nothing to do with what I actually said. I am quite aware that it is possible to rule out someone’s voice (and I never claimed otherwise), but only if you have something to compare it to. What I did say, however, is that it is impossible to ascertain that a voice belongs to a specific person if you do not possess a sample of that person’s voice to compare it to.
Even your expert knows this.

Whose voice do you think it was on the original 911 call,genius? Hint:His initials are GZ.

happy jack wrote:

I am quite aware that it was Zimmerman’s voice on the 911 call. What I have been maintaining is that it is impossible to ascertain that it is Martin who is doing the screaming. To the best of my knowledge, the forensic experts do not have a recording of Martin’s voice with which to make a comparison.

If there's only 2 people there and Zimmerman is excluded than who's left. Need a hint?

happy jack wrote:

sparks wrote:

Every time a "Stand Your Ground" law or "Take your gun to work" law is passed, we lose the freedom to live lives that are not threatened by gun toting crazies.

Every time a law-abiding citizen is prevented from protecting himself from thugs, we lose the freedom to live lives that are not threatened by thugs.

Every time a self appointed vigilant guns down a 17 year old coming back from the store with soda pop and Skittles without being arrested and charged with murder, we lose the freedom to live in safe country.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

If there's only 2 people there and Zimmerman is excluded than who's left.

[b]Why ask me? Ask your expert (although even he is not sure).

Primeau calls his analysis an "opinion"

Let me dumb it down for you......
2 people (Zimmerman & Martin)
-1 person eliminated (Zimmerman,because there was a sample of his voice via the 911 tape)
========================================================
= 1 person (Martin)

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

If there's only 2 people there and Zimmerman is excluded than who's left.

[b]Why ask me? Ask your expert (although even he is not sure).

Primeau calls his analysis an "opinion"

Let me dumb it down for you......
2 people (Zimmerman & Martin)
-1 person eliminated (Zimmerman,because there was a sample of his voice via the 911 tape)
========================================================
= 1 person (Martin)

Let me ‘wise it up’ for you. My argument all along has been that Martin’s voice has not been forensically verified, and cannot or will not be until the forensic analysts obtain a recording of his voice to use as a basis for comparison. Of course, it may be strongly suggested that, by process of elimination, it is Martin’s voice; but it cannot yet be established forensically.
Keep up, ‘kay?
(Incidentally, whether or not it is Martin’s voice does nothing to prove one way or the other who the instigator was.)

Here is a curiosity that I don't believe has been addressed:

If, as the funeral director claims, there were no signs of a scuffle on the body, and the only apparent injury was the gunshot wound, why would Trayvon Martin have been screaming?


And another oddity:

If, as has been suggested, George Zimmerman was intent on gunning down a black man for purely racist reasons, why would he have bothered to involve the 911 dispatcher and allow his alleged racial slurs ("fucking coons", to those with very selective hearing) and racial profiling ("he looks black" ) to be recorded for possible use against him in a court of law?


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403734n

Funeral director on Trayvon Martin's lack of injuries

March 29, 2012 6:52 PM

The Florida funeral director who handled the burial of Trayvon Martin says there were no signs of a scuffle on the dead teen, contradicting the story of the man who claimed he killed Martin during a violent scuffle. Martin died of a gunshot, the only apparent injury says the funeral director.

happy jack wrote:

Of course, it may be strongly suggested that, by process of elimination, it is Martin’s voice; but it cannot yet be established forensically.
Keep up, ‘kay?

Whatever you say,Dr Quincy

Quote :

(Incidentally, whether or not it is Martin’s voice does nothing to prove one way or the other who the instigator was.)

Who was following who? Who was told by the police that "there is no need" for that? Why did Martin ignore their suggestion and keep following him?

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Of course, it may be strongly suggested that, by process of elimination, it is Martin’s voice; but it cannot yet be established forensically.
Keep up, ‘kay?

Whatever you say,Dr Quincy

Whenever you show me that it can be proven forensically, let me know. I will be willing to listen, as I am about the only one who still has an open mind concerning this investigation.

Artie60438 wrote:

Who was following who?

According to all reports, Zimmerman was following Martin.

Artie60438 wrote:

Who was told by the police that "there is no need" for that?

According to all reports, Zimmerman was told that.

Artie60438 wrote:

Why did Martin ignore their suggestion and keep following him?

I have no idea what you are talking about.



One more question: Who started the alleged physical altercation?
We don’t know yet.

happy jack wrote:

Here is a curiosity that I don't believe has been addressed:

If, as the funeral director claims, there were no signs of a scuffle on the body, and the only apparent injury was the gunshot wound, why would Trayvon Martin have been screaming?

Being chased down by a maniac and then staring down the barrel of a 9mm handgun would make anybody scream.

Quote :

And another oddity:

If, as has been suggested, George Zimmerman was intent on gunning down a black man for purely racist reasons, why would he have bothered to involve the 911 dispatcher and allow his alleged racial slurs ("fucking coons", to those with very selective hearing) and racial profiling ("he looks black" ) to be recorded for possible use against him in a court of law?

Because he has shit for brains?

Quote :

Whenever you show me that it can be proven forensically, let me know.

It has been proved forensically that Zimmerman is not the one out of two people at the scene screaming.
Anyone who does not have shit for brains would know that.

This kind of killing goes on all day long, all over the .S. If it was black on blac...not a peep.

UrRight wrote:

This kind of killing goes on all day long, all over the .S. If it was black on blac...not a peep.

If the shooter was a 30 year old black guy and the victim was 17 year old white kid the shooter would've been in jail awaiting trial from day one.

happy jack wrote:

.... which is all I've been saying all along.

Yeah it could be the Easter Bunny that's screaming for help.