Insurance Giant AIG to pay $165 million in bonuses

Quote :

Insurance Giant AIG to pay $165 million in bonuses
By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger, Ap Economics Writer Sun Mar 15, 7:55 am ET

WASHINGTON – American International Group is giving its executives tens of millions of dollars in new bonuses even though it received a taxpayer bailout of more than $170 billion dollars.

AIG is paying out the executive bonuses to meet a Sunday deadline, but the troubled insurance giant has agreed to administration requests to restrain future payments.

The Treasury Department determined that the government did not have the legal authority to block the current payments by the company. AIG declared earlier this month that it had suffered a loss of $61.7 billion for the fourth quarter of last year, the largest corporate loss in history.

They may not have the authority to block current payments, but the FEDS have the authority to prosecute for INSURANCE FRAUD, which is why they lost so much money to begin with. So, all you deciples of the Obama administration, let's hear it.

Quote :

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner telephoned Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy on March 11 to demand changes to New York-based AIG’s bonus payments, an administration official said separately. The people declined to be identified because discussions weren’t public. Liddy told Geithner in a letter that retention payments for 2009 -- designed to keep employees from leaving AIG -- will be cut at least 30 percent, and that some payments can’t be stopped because they’re binding contracts.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a4U_B0XX3U3M&refer=home

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

Ohhmama wrote:

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

Yeah. Well for the record, AIG didn't get any money from the "stimulus package." The money that they received was from the TARP funds. There was no way for the government to "stay out of" the mess that AIG created. Because of lax regulations, AIG got involved in the "derivatives" market and when that collapsed, it put people's insurance policies, annuities and pension funds in peril. In short, they became "too big to fail."

The lesson that this country needs to learn is to never allow any company (especially those in the financial sector) to become so important to our economic well being that we can't afford to let it fail because of the "domino effect" such a failure would have on our economy. When this crisis finally passes, we better have regulations in place that prevent this type of situation from ever happening again. The time of lax regulation and "staying out of the private sector" is over.

Ohhmama wrote:

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

So you're in favor of these parasites keeping the taxpayers money?

Scorpion wrote:

Ohhmama wrote:

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

Yeah. Well for the record, AIG didn't get any money from the "stimulus package." The money that they received was from the TARP funds. There was no way for the government to "stay out of" the mess that AIG created. Because of lax regulations, AIG got involved in the "derivatives" market and when that collapsed, it put people's insurance policies, annuities and pension funds in peril. In short, they became "too big to fail."

The lesson that this country needs to learn is to never allow any company (especially those in the financial sector) to become so important to our economic well being that we can't afford to let it fail because of the "domino effect" such a failure would have on our economy. When this crisis finally passes, we better have regulations in place that prevent this type of situation from ever happening again. The time of lax regulation and "staying out of the private sector" is over.

You're right, I misspoke, I meant bailout, not stimulus...- that was my duh

Artie60438 wrote:

Ohhmama wrote:

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

So you're in favor of these parasites keeping the taxpayers money?

No, I never thought they should have gotten it in the first place. This bailout is a perfect example of what happens when big government sticks it's hands where it doesn't belong. IMO, private businesses should succeed or fail without help from the gov't.

Looking at it from another perspective (too big to fail) what we are really talking about is a possible failure of an insurance company. Even 50 years ago insurance, especially worldwide, was not that big of a deal. And due to various economic conditions many in the US are having to allow home and medical insurance to lapse because they don't have the money to pay the premiums. But here we are making an expensive effort through tax money (an involuntary contribution) to keep an insurer from going insolvent for the sake of those who were financially able afford to keep their insurance. Gotta love the irony!

Ohhmama wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Ohhmama wrote:

So I just heard on the radio that Congress is now bitching for the mess they have helped create. They want to tax either 90 or 100% of the bonus money from the stimulus package that AIG handed out.

Hey Congress- here's a clue- stay out of the private sector and you won't have these issues!!

So you're in favor of these parasites keeping the taxpayers money?

No, I never thought they should have gotten it in the first place. This bailout is a perfect example of what happens when big government sticks it's hands where it doesn't belong. IMO, private businesses should succeed or fail without help from the gov't.

Hey, I agree that under normal circumstances, "private business" should succeed or fail without help from the government. But we have to have regulations in place to make sure that financial firms can never again put the economy at risk. I don't think you have grasped just how bad the ramifications of AIG going under would have been. It would have meant complete and utter devastation, for literally millions and millions of people.

Here's a link to a presentation that details some of the carnage:

http://www.aig.com/aigweb/internet/en/files/AIG%20Systemic%20Risk2_tcm385-152209.pdf

I confess that I never knew just how critical AIG had become to our financial system. Hell, I thought that they were just another insurance company. But because of our government's failure to properly regulate the industry, AIG was allowed to branch out into exotic investment instruments that they should never have been allowed to get involved with... but with no regulation, there was nothing to stop them from doing it.

So now we're screwed. We already own 80% of the company, and it's still far from certain whether AIG will survive. There's plenty of blame to go around for how the AIG situation was allowed to get this far out of control, but it's absolutely absurd to think that we would be better off if we would have just "let them fail."

We've sunk something like 170 billion intio AIG so far. How much would it have cost us to let the company fail? Multiple Trillions. I don't like any of this any more than you do. But let's not pretend that this is merely an idealogical exercise, or that we're "imposing socialism." We're in a frickin' fight for our economic future, and the cost of this one company failing would absolutely dwarf any amount of money that you think the Obama adminsitration is "wasting" on the stimulus and the proposed budget.

I believe in free markets, and I'm a firm believer in Capitalism. But we simply cannot allow companies like AIG to engage in reckless behavior that puts the entire country at risk ever again.

Wow - seriously wow, your right I didn't realize how screwed this nation, hell the global nations are if AIG goes down. That was a great link, and thanks for putting it up.

This whole situation makes me even more angry... Wow.

Very good link,Scorpion. After reading through the scenarios that could occur if AIG were to fail, it is very apparent to me that all the reasons justifying paying retention bonuses to the incompetent senior management at AIG are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell would anyone want to retain these fools? Given the current disarray in the financial industry, it's not like they could find other jobs anyhow. The truth is the company is bankrupt and those execs should be told they are not getting bonuses and should be damn glad they still have jobs at all.

sparks wrote:

Very good link,Scorpion. After reading through the scenarios that could occur if AIG were to fail, it is very apparent to me that all the reasons justifying paying retention bonuses to the incompetent senior management at AIG are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell would anyone want to retain these fools? Given the current disarray in the financial industry, it's not like they could find other jobs anyhow. The truth is the company is bankrupt and those execs should be told they are not getting bonuses and should be damn glad they still have jobs at all.

Actually, if the FEDS were serious, AIG should be prosecuted for insurance fraud. Nobody is even talking about that.

Mark it down folks, it must be a cold day in hell-

I have to say sparks that I agree with you. Why in the heck companies retain the very people who get them in financial messes are beyond me. As a result of the bailout what they should have demanded is that AIG removed the waste at the top of the company and found others who could be better at getting the company back on track. Keeping the same people in position to make the same mistakes is stupid.

I read an op-ed piece yesterday that might be of interest to you guys.

The Case for Paying Out Bonuses at A.I.G

The writer claims that he was told by a "compensation consultant" from another firm that, believe it or not...

Quote :

The word on the street is that A.I.G. employees are being heavily recruited

In any case, it's probably worth reading this piece, but only if you have a strong stomach.

Why are we hearing that "We Must Honor The Contracts " of the executives of AIG? When the Auto Makers came to Washington for assistance, the Republicans in the House and Senate demanded that the union auto workers had to make concessions on their contracts before any more government money would be loaned out. Why was there no talk of honoring the autoworker's contracts? The truth is when it comes to the media,there is a double standard. CEO's get a pass for their behavior and the average union worker is attacked relentlessly. False claims of autoworkers earning "$76.00 " an hour were made.Where is the discussion of how much AIG management is being paid?.How come no one in the media is talking about concessions from the employees of AIG? Concessions are forced out of the UAW, but AIG management get millions in "Bonus " pay.The moral here boys and girls is this.
If your a Union Worker, you are the enemy.
If you work for AIG, the media will stick up for your right to millions in bonuses.

LoisLane wrote:

sparks wrote:

Very good link,Scorpion. After reading through the scenarios that could occur if AIG were to fail, it is very apparent to me that all the reasons justifying paying retention bonuses to the incompetent senior management at AIG are absolutely ridiculous. Why the hell would anyone want to retain these fools? Given the current disarray in the financial industry, it's not like they could find other jobs anyhow. The truth is the company is bankrupt and those execs should be told they are not getting bonuses and should be damn glad they still have jobs at all.

Actually, if the FEDS were serious, AIG should be prosecuted for insurance fraud. Nobody is even talking about that.

Toss Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in the can right along with 'em. If they claim ignorance then they need to resign their committee, if not from Congress entirely for incompetence.

sparks wrote:

Why are we hearing that "We Must Honor The Contracts " of the executives of AIG? When the Auto Makers came to Washington for assistance, the Republicans in the House and Senate demanded that the union auto workers had to make concessions on their contracts before any more government money would be loaned out. Why was there no talk of honoring the autoworker's contracts? The truth is when it comes to the media,there is a double standard. CEO's get a pass for their behavior and the average union worker is attacked relentlessly. False claims of autoworkers earning "$76.00 " an hour were made.Where is the discussion of how much AIG management is being paid?.How come no one in the media is talking about concessions from the employees of AIG? Concessions are forced out of the UAW, but AIG management get millions in "Bonus " pay.The moral here boys and girls is this.
If your a Union Worker, you are the enemy.
If you work for AIG, the media will stick up for your right to millions in bonuses.

Yeah, well I understand your anger, and you're right about the $76 an hour stuff. But I certainly don't get the impression that the media is giving AIG management a "pass." The coverage of the AIG bonuses has been relentless, and rightfully so.

This looks promising...

AIG CEO says employees starting to return bonuses

Scorpion wrote:

sparks wrote:

Why are we hearing that "We Must Honor The Contracts " of the executives of AIG? When the Auto Makers came to Washington for assistance, the Republicans in the House and Senate demanded that the union auto workers had to make concessions on their contracts before any more government money would be loaned out. Why was there no talk of honoring the autoworker's contracts? The truth is when it comes to the media,there is a double standard. CEO's get a pass for their behavior and the average union worker is attacked relentlessly. False claims of autoworkers earning "$76.00 " an hour were made.Where is the discussion of how much AIG management is being paid?.How come no one in the media is talking about concessions from the employees of AIG? Concessions are forced out of the UAW, but AIG management get millions in "Bonus " pay.The moral here boys and girls is this.
If your a Union Worker, you are the enemy.
If you work for AIG, the media will stick up for your right to millions in bonuses.

Yeah, well I understand your anger, and you're right about the $76 an hour stuff. But I certainly don't get the impression that the media is giving AIG management a "pass." The coverage of the AIG bonuses has been relentless, and rightfully so.

This looks promising...

AIG CEO says employees starting to return bonuses

I saw that link and I think it is a good start. However, GM and Chrysler have received about $25 billion so far in government aid. Before they received one cent,the unions were forced into concessions. Why isn't AIG being held to the same standard? They have received $180 Billion so far, and not one word from either side of the aisle about demanding concessions from their employees.

I think auto workers and electricians just make too much money. In fact they should be taxed at the 100% rate. No, forget that - 1,000%. And before you think I've lost it that's exactly what one member of Congress said, only she was instead talking about AIG employees.

Several members of the House and Senate from both parties are talking some ridiculous stuff they'd like to propose become passed. But you gotta love the mentality here! They don't like what was done within the literal rules and prevailing laws, so Congress wants to pass a law to take it all away after the fact. That is one damned slippery slope!

Regardless of whether you think management should have found a way not to pay the bonuses Congress is talking about personally taxing the employees who received the money. That's almost as crazy as people who made a profit under Bernie Madeoff 10 years ago being expected to turn over those profits to the court to pay off victims even though the recipient did nothing wrong and invested in good faith just like others had a decade ago.

I think much of what Congress is saying on camera is probably just crap to deceive the voters into thinking they really want to do something about a situation that makes people angry. I hope they're not foolish enough to set a president like that anyway. It's all a load of crap and they're probably doing it because this is maybe the 1st time they can't actually blame Bush because it was the money Congress gave away in haste.

The smoking gun has been found!

According to Glen Beck Chris Dodd took a ton of campaign money from AIG (Obama took $100k that we know of himself, BTW) and Dodd wrote the specific legislation that allowed the bonuses to remain in the AIG deal. No word on when he will go out and hang himself yet.

And what's not being talked about as much is we have the same situation with Salle Mae & Freddie Mac, which Barney Frank wrote in. No word on his plans of an impending death either.


:guillotine:

Just after my post Fox News questioned Chris Dodd about his work on the bill and he said that's not the wording he used. He said it was changed in the joint committee (apparently by Obama). Another member was quoted as saying nobody in Congress actually read the thing before it was passed.

So it looks like we have Dodd & Frank holding the smoking gun but Obama's fingerprints are all over the thing. Well it looks like we have means, motive ($100k plus whatever the AIG exes donated personally), and opportunity.

Mirage wrote:

The smoking gun has been found!

According to Glen Beck

Quote :

"Let me just tell you what I'm thinking. I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out -- is this wrong?

"Every night I get down on my knees and pray that Dennis Kucinich will burst into flames." In May 2004, Beck also called Michael Berg, whose son had been beheaded in Iraq, "despicable" and a "scumbag" because Berg criticized George W. Bush upon his son's death. He criticized two groups during a September 2005 radio broadcast; first, Beck described his hatred for non-fleeing Hurricane Katrina victims:

Quote :

"I didn't think I could hate [Hurricane Katrica] victims faster than the 9/11 victims.... And that's all we're hearing about, are the people in New Orleans. Those are the only ones we're seeing on television are the scumbags--and again, it's not all the people in New Orleans. Most of the people in New Orleans got out! It's just a small percentage of those who were left in New Orleans, or who decided to stay in New Orleans, and they're getting all the attention."

Quote :

When I see a 9/11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining. And we did our best for them." Beck also noted "of the 3,000 victims' families, I don't hate all of them. Probably about 10 of them."[33]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck#Controversial_statements

Actually according to me. My phrase, and it holds water! This one's on the Obama administration if Dodd didn't lie on camera.

Ok now in a different interview Dodd says the Treasury dept ordered the changes to preserve the bonuses.

I hear the sound of deafening silence from the Obama apologists.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/18/sen-dodd-admits-adding-bonus-provision-stimulus-package/100days/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/18/fannie-mae-pay-bonuses-g-execs/

Them links good enough?

Still silence on the Dodd/ Treasury demonstrated conspiracy in this topic?

Curious.

Meanwhile we are headed towards mob rule. The House overwhelmingly approves the unconstitutional measure without debate or due consideration of the Constitutionality to confiscate 90% of the bonuses which was part of a private contract . Now the NY Atty General is illegally demanding names of recipients without proof of criminal activity.

Where's Maxx? It might not be politically popular given the public outrage on these issues but this mob rule mentality is clearly a threat to freedom from unjust intrusion by the government.

Do I need links on this or can we agree the House voted away guaranteed rights of American citizens just because it wanted to?