Yes I also know very well how guns work. How the two different types of rifles function does not matter, however
Actually, in this context, it matters very much, considering that you are calling for a ban on such weapons, yet not calling for a ban on hunting rifles in general, most of which function identically.
Bullshit. So tell us, what military force, special ops or SWAT team on this planet uses hunting rifles as the standard weapon of choice?
I don't have those stats immediately available.
Yeah,that's because there aren't any! Nice work,Edge! Now run along,troll.
Winchester 70 30.06
The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock, the deadliest sniper in the Vietnam war, with 93 confirmed kills.
Well no, the rifle below the hunting rifle is a military style assault rifle designed for killing people, it's not a hunting rifle just because gun loons or the NRA say it is. Hunting rifles are for killing animals. I already told you, high capacity magazines like that used by the military and used in the Orlando mass shooting are more efficiant in killing people. The gun used in Orlando was developed for use by US special Ops forces, it's not a fucking hunting rifle. Let me know when that Winchester deer rifle is used in a mass shooting, THEN you might have a valid point...until then you and all the other gun worshiping loons are full of shit.
Artie60438
Posts : 9728
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/14/2016, 8:03 pm
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
Yes I also know very well how guns work. How the two different types of rifles function does not matter, however
Actually, in this context, it matters very much, considering that you are calling for a ban on such weapons, yet not calling for a ban on hunting rifles in general, most of which function identically.
Bullshit. So tell us, what military force, special ops or SWAT team on this planet uses hunting rifles as the standard weapon of choice?
I don't have those stats immediately available.
Yeah,that's because there aren't any! Nice work,Edge! Now run along,troll.
Winchester 70 30.06
The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock, the deadliest sniper in the Vietnam war, with 93 confirmed kills.
Snipers are a minute percentage of the armed forces Edge mentioned,so your argument is worthless.. The weapons of choice for military forces, special ops or SWAT teams are similar to what the shooter used to mow down all those people.
Scorpion
Posts : 2141
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/14/2016, 11:48 pm
happy jack wrote:
What was the capacity of the magazine used in the Orlando shooting, and what part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
The Sig Sauer MCX rifle Mateen used had double that capacity: 30 rounds. A Snapchat video taken at the scene in Orlando illustrates its devastating power: the shooter can be heard firing more than 20 shots in a single nine-second stretch.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 9:10 am
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
Yes I also know very well how guns work. How the two different types of rifles function does not matter, however
Actually, in this context, it matters very much, considering that you are calling for a ban on such weapons, yet not calling for a ban on hunting rifles in general, most of which function identically.
Bullshit. So tell us, what military force, special ops or SWAT team on this planet uses hunting rifles as the standard weapon of choice?
I don't have those stats immediately available.
Yeah,that's because there aren't any! Nice work,Edge! Now run along,troll.
Winchester 70 30.06
The rifle used by Carlos Hathcock, the deadliest sniper in the Vietnam war, with 93 confirmed kills.
Snipers are a minute percentage of the armed forces Edge mentioned,so your argument is worthless.. The weapons of choice for military forces, special ops or SWAT teams are similar to what the shooter used to mow down all those people.
No, my argument is not worthless, inasmuch as it is not an argument, but rather an answer to edge's question, which was:
So tell us, what military force, special ops or SWAT team on this planet uses hunting rifles as the standard weapon of choice?
Snipers are special ops. Question answered.
Artie60438 wrote:
The weapons of choice for military forces, special ops or SWAT teams are similar to what the shooter used to mow down all those people.
'Similar' is not identical, and in this case, that makes a huge difference. The military version of the type of weapon used in this case is fully automatic, i.e., pressing the trigger and holding it down will empty the entire magazine within seconds, whereas the civilian version that was used functions identically to the standard hunting rifle - one trigger pull, one bullet. I can't even count how many times I have had to explain this to you. Why don't you go away and come back to the discussion once you have learned enough about the topic so that you don't make an ass of yourself with every comment you make?
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 9:12 am
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
What was the capacity of the magazine used in the Orlando shooting, and what part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
The Sig Sauer MCX rifle Mateen used had double that capacity: 30 rounds. A Snapchat video taken at the scene in Orlando illustrates its devastating power: the shooter can be heard firing more than 20 shots in a single nine-second stretch.
What part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
Scorpion
Posts : 2141
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 9:49 am
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
What was the capacity of the magazine used in the Orlando shooting, and what part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
The Sig Sauer MCX rifle Mateen used had double that capacity: 30 rounds. A Snapchat video taken at the scene in Orlando illustrates its devastating power: the shooter can be heard firing more than 20 shots in a single nine-second stretch.
What part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
Do your own fucking research. I simply posted some info about the shooting to get you started. Obviously, if the guy fired 20 times in 9 seconds with the same gun, then I don't think it's a reach to say that magazine capacity "played" a role in the shooting.
On June 14th the American Medical Association’s (AMA) House of Delegates in Chicago, IL voted almost unanimously to adopt a resolution supporting the idea that gun violence is a public health issue. The resolution also called for lobbying Congress to eliminate the ban on research into the causes of gun violence. The AMA reports:
Quote :
With approximately 30,000 men, women and children dying each year at the barrel of a gun in elementary schools, movie theaters, workplaces, houses of worship and on live television, the United States faces a public health crisis of gun violence,” said AMA President Steven J. Stack, M.D. “Even as America faces a crisis unrivaled in any other developed country, the Congress prohibits the CDC from conducting the very research that would help us understand the problems associated with gun violence and determine how to reduce the high rate of firearm-related deaths and injuries. An epidemiological analysis of gun violence is vital so physicians and other health providers, law enforcement, and society at large may be able to prevent injury, death and other harms to society resulting from firearms.
The resolution is aimed primarily at a congressional ban on research into gun violence by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).
A new thread in the story of Orlando gunman Omar Mateen. According to multiple patrons of Pulse, the gay club that was the scene of the massacre, Mateen was in fact a regular at the club and also maintained a profile on at least one gay dating app. The reporting, by the LA Times and the Orlando Sentinel is not clear on whether Mateen had sex with other men or whether he was somehow casing the establishment in preparation for his attack. But at least two parts of the story suggests there was more going on than just preparing for the attack.
Experts say the increased use of guns in terror attacks is an alarming trend. Arie Perliger, director of terrorism studies at the U.S. Military Academy, said that U.S. terrorists are turning to guns because since Sept. 11, the federal government has monitored the use of explosives and the trade of materials that can be turned into explosives.3 People on the terrorism watch list aren’t barred from buying guns, by contrast, although such a ban probably wouldn’t have stopped the Charleston or San Bernardino shootings, because the suspects weren’t on the watch list.
Guns are easier for terrorists to work with than explosives “and are less likely to result in a terrorist operation being compromised,” said Jeffrey Simon, a visiting lecturer in the department of political science at the University of California, Los Angeles, and author of the book “Lone Wolf Terrorism: Understanding the Growing Threat.” “That’s particularly appealing to lone wolves. We’ll see more of that in the U.S.”
Take special note of how politicians reacted after the shooting. Watch President Obama's calm speech again. Note how he calls this event a shooting and specifically mentions the LGBTQ community.
Contrast that with Donald Trump's response, who made a series of appalling tweets about the event, then released an unhinged statement about "radical Islam," saying Obama should step down, and then gave an interview on Fox strongly implying conspiracy ideations about the president.
Contrast that with Hillary Clinton's response, which was far more measured and reality-based. She understood that information was (and is) still lacking, and going off like tainted batch of fireworks not only is the wrong thing to do, but it actually makes things worse. As my Slate colleague William Saletan wrote in the link above, hate against Muslims is what ISIS wants. And also note that, like the president but unlike Trump, Clinton didn't hesitate to talk about guns in her reaction. She addressed the actual situation, not some fantasy spun out of conspiracies and hatred.
Conspiracy theorist and Donald Trump ally Alex Jones claimed President Obama let the tragic mass shooting at the Orlando gay nightclub Pulse happen because he wants to ban “your speech” and “guns.” Trump and his campaign surrogates have been heavily courting Jones and his audience during the presidential campaign.
In a conference call with reporters Monday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and other Democratic senators said the Orlando attack had motivated Democrats to bring back the "Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2015," a bill Democrats had tried and failed to pass in December after the terrorist attack in San Bernardino, California.
"We will find a way to bring this to a vote," Schumer said Monday. "This is the first thing we are going to attempt because it is the most relevant."
According to the bill's sponsor, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), the legislation would allow the attorney general to block individuals suspected of having terrorist ties from buying a gun. The legislation also includes an appeals process for those individuals who may argue they were wrongly targeted.
Anthony Jeselnik - Thoughts and prayers
Sure, this seems like the deadliest mass shooting in American history right now. But give it time.
Gretchen Carlson goes off-script. How embarrassing.
Artie60438
Posts : 9728
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 5:33 pm
happy jack wrote:
Why don't you go away and come back to the discussion once you have learned enough about the topic so that you don't make an ass of yourself with every comment you make? [/b]
I know enough about the topic to know that the murder weapon and those similar to it have no place in a civilized society. It has one purpose...to kill as many living things in as short of time as possible.
Now run along,stop trolling,and go jerk off with your junior GI Joe collection of armaments.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 5:40 pm
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
What was the capacity of the magazine used in the Orlando shooting, and what part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
The Sig Sauer MCX rifle Mateen used had double that capacity: 30 rounds. A Snapchat video taken at the scene in Orlando illustrates its devastating power: the shooter can be heard firing more than 20 shots in a single nine-second stretch.
What part did magazine capacity play in the Orlando shooting?
Do your own fucking research. I simply posted some info about the shooting to get you started. Obviously, if the guy fired 20 times in 9 seconds with the same gun, then I don't think it's a reach to say that magazine capacity "played" a role in the shooting.
It's not a matter of doing research. It's more a question of why you all are so obsessed with magazine capacity.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 5:45 pm
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
edge540
Posts : 1165
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 6:26 pm
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
That's absolutey hilarious coming from a know it all gun loon who makes the ridculous claim that military forces, special ops teams and SWAT teams use hunting rifles as their primary weapon. Jack shit, indeed.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 7:10 pm
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
That's absolutey hilarious coming from a know it all gun loon who makes the ridculous claim that military forces, special ops teams and SWAT teams use hunting rifles as their primary weapon. Jack shit, indeed.
My claim was that one of the most lethal of the spec ops snipers used a basic hunting rifle to ply his trade. All this time, I thought your name was edge. Apparently, though, your name is Jack Shit. Pleased to meet you, Jack.
edge540
Posts : 1165
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/15/2016, 7:57 pm
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
That's absolutey hilarious coming from a know it all gun loon who makes the ridculous claim that military forces, special ops teams and SWAT teams use hunting rifles as their primary weapon. Jack shit, indeed.
My claim was that one of the most lethal of the spec ops snipers used a basic hunting rifle to ply his trade. All this time, I thought your name was edge. Apparently, though, your name is Jack Shit. Pleased to meet you, Jack.
Really now...
OK, good to see you finally admit that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons as thier PRIMARY weapons and not fucking deer rifles. The major of US troops are equiped with assault rifles not basic hunting rifles. Your red herring was a big fail, congrats.
Heretic
Posts : 3520
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 1:03 am
Alright, happy. I need help defending the absolute assault on "the cause" going on right now. The NRA came out saying that people on the terrorist watch listshould be denied their second amendment. Yesterday, it was ok. Now it is not. How should I, as a gun loving American like you, respond? Clearly guns solve everything, and denying them their right like this is based on nothing but "thought crime". As you've explained to me before, it's 100% bullshit because we don't have psychics working in law enforcement. They should have all the guns they want. So are they wrong? Has the NRA been taken over by a bunch of peace loving hippies? Or do they have a point? That seems unlikely. Like I said, I'm new to all of this, so any help you're willing to lend me would be greatly appreciated. This is difficult to defend on social media.
Heretic
Posts : 3520
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 1:15 am
edge540 wrote:
OK, good to see you finally admit that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons as thier PRIMARY weapons and not fucking deer rifles.
Pffftt... Weapons used by the military or others are never chosen for either tactical importance and/or availability. That's why the US military uses only slingshots.
Do I have that right, happy? Nobody's sent me the script yet. Do I need to talk to you or someone else?
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 6:20 am
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
That's absolutey hilarious coming from a know it all gun loon who makes the ridculous claim that military forces, special ops teams and SWAT teams use hunting rifles as their primary weapon. Jack shit, indeed.
My claim was that one of the most lethal of the spec ops snipers used a basic hunting rifle to ply his trade. All this time, I thought your name was edge. Apparently, though, your name is Jack Shit. Pleased to meet you, Jack.
Really now...
OK, good to see you finally admit that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons as thier PRIMARY weapons and not fucking deer rifles. The major of US troops are equiped with assault rifles not basic hunting rifles. Your red herring was a big fail, congrats.
I’ve always acknowledged that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons. However, they use the fully automatic versions. Can you tell me which military forces, special ops, or SWAT teams use the civilian version of the AR-15 (you know, the one that causes you to wet your panties) as their standard weapon of choice?
Artie60438
Posts : 9728
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 9:55 am
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
[b]No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 1:23 pm
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."
No, you don't know at all what you are talking about. In fact, you appear to be getting stupider by the post. Eugene Stoner designed the FULLYAUTOMATIC version of the AR-15 as a military weapon. I explained to you the difference, for the billionth time, just yesterday. How short is your attention span, you dumb fuck?
Artie60438
Posts : 9728
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 1:59 pm
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."
[b]No, you don't know at all what you are talking about. In fact, you appear to be getting stupider by the post. Eugene Stoner designed the FULLYAUTOMATIC version of the AR-15 as a military weapon. I explained to you the difference, for the billionth time, just yesterday. How short is your attention span, you dumb fuck?
Now you're just embarrassing yourself. How sad.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 2:14 pm
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
I know enough about the topic ....
No, you don't know nearly enough about the topic. You know exactly jack shit about the topic, jack shit being one step below doodly squat, which is one step below nothing.
"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."
No, you don't know at all what you are talking about. In fact, you appear to be getting stupider by the post. Eugene Stoner designed the FULLYAUTOMATIC version of the AR-15 as a military weapon. I explained to you the difference, for the billionth time, just yesterday. How short is your attention span, you dumb fuck?
Now you're just embarrassing yourself. How sad.
Embarrassing myself, my ass. Your ignorance is mind-boggling. If you still cannot grasp the difference between a fully automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon, even after having it explained to you countless times, then you really have no business at all chiming in on the topic.
Scorpion
Posts : 2141
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 3:20 pm
happy jack wrote:
I’ve always acknowledged that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons. However, they use the fully automatic versions.
So what? Isn't their version "selective fire" capable?
Are you saying that SWAT runs around using only the "fully automatic" capability? I seriously doubt that's the case. In fact, I suspect that they use the single shot capability the vast majority of the time. I think that is highly relevant to the discussion.
I'm not saying that the burst or full auto doesn't come in handy at times, but if their weapon is mostly used as "one trigger pull, one shot," then the fact that their weapon is a fully automatic version is largely irrelevant, at least in this context.
happy jack
Posts : 6988
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 3:38 pm
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
I’ve always acknowledged that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons. However, they use the fully automatic versions.
So what? Isn't their version "selective fire" capable?
Are you saying that SWAT runs around using only the "fully automatic" capability? I seriously doubt that's the case. In fact, I suspect that they use the single shot capability the vast majority of the time. I think that is highly relevant to the discussion.
I'm not saying that the burst or full auto doesn't come in handy at times, but if their weapon is mostly used as "one trigger pull, one shot," then the fact that their weapon is a fully automatic version is largely irrelevant, at least in this context.
The mode in which the military uses the weapon, either single shot or full-auto, is irrelevant. The relevant point is that the fully automatic version is available to only law enforcement and the military (with exceptions for federally-licensed firearm dealers), and possession by unlicensed civilians is illegal. Those who attempt to convey the impression that the civilian version of the AR-15 functions identically to the version of that weapon used by the military are straight-up fucking liars.
Scorpion
Posts : 2141
Subject: Re: Gun Control 6/16/2016, 4:38 pm
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
I’ve always acknowledged that military forces, special ops and SWAT teams use military spec assault weapons. However, they use the fully automatic versions.
So what? Isn't their version "selective fire" capable?
Are you saying that SWAT runs around using only the "fully automatic" capability? I seriously doubt that's the case. In fact, I suspect that they use the single shot capability the vast majority of the time. I think that is highly relevant to the discussion.
I'm not saying that the burst or full auto doesn't come in handy at times, but if their weapon is mostly used as "one trigger pull, one shot," then the fact that their weapon is a fully automatic version is largely irrelevant, at least in this context.
The mode in which the military uses the weapon, either single shot or full-auto, is irrelevant.
No. I don't think it is irrelevant at all. You're the one who is always braying on about "one trigger pull, one shot." You've even used that argument to equate the AR 15 with a deer rifle. You can't have it both ways.
We all get it. We do understand the difference between a "semi-automatic" and a fully automatic weapon. We also understand that possession of an automatic weapon by a civilian is illegal.
But if the military and civilians are both using the same weapon, and the only difference is the "automatic" functionality (that is seldom used in one version and illegal in the other), I fail to see how that supports your argument at all... because again, as you're so fond of saying... "one trigger pull, one shot."
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