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 Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?

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UrRight



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PostSubject: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/21/2011, 8:30 am

http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/news/kadner/5492409-452/emanuel-wants-casinowelch-no-longer-does.html

My opinion: No.

Why? Because it would only serve the elite people who live in the heart of Chicago/tourist/people attending conventions, etc.

The drawback: Building on in the south suburbs to compete may have an affect, but because of their smoking ban, people will still flock to Indiana.

Joliet's two casinos are sinking, not just because of the smoking ban, but because of unemployment. The economy.

There is mention of the casino money going towards education, besides other things.

Isn't that why they set up the lottery in all the states? I thought lottery money was to go directly towards the schools.

So, my question is, where is that lottery money going - in any state?

I don't know how people can afford to gamble with gas as high as it is, the economy, lack of jobs, the high property taxes, the cost of food has risen, etc.

The elite downtown will spark revenue...but I don't think it's going to affect the Hammond casino.

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/21/2011, 12:07 pm

UrRight wrote:
http://southtownstar.suntimes.com/news/kadner/5492409-452/emanuel-wants-casinowelch-no-longer-does.html

My opinion: No.

Why? Because it would only serve the elite people who live in the heart of Chicago/tourist/people attending conventions, etc.

The drawback: Building on in the south suburbs to compete may have an affect, but because of their smoking ban, people will still flock to Indiana.
Illinois is currently rethinking it's ban on smoking on the boats.

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I don't know how people can afford to gamble with gas as high as it is, the economy, lack of jobs, the high property taxes, the cost of food has risen, etc.
People will always figure out a way to feed their addictions.

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The elite downtown will spark revenue...but I don't think it's going to affect the Hammond casino.
It eventually will. For instance now there are shuttles everyday from Chicago to Hammond. Those will start to disappear with a Chicago casino. There are only so many gambling dollars out there.
The more casinos that open,the more the dilution of profits. Just look at the history of state lotteries or horse racing receipts since the casinos opened.
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the oracle

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/22/2011, 7:47 pm

lifting the smoking ban would hurt local boats more then a chicago casino would...but that wouldnt be too significant a city located casino will not be competition for the hammond boat. it would cater to the convention and tourists set more then locals.

the scary possibility to me is if they head back to the indians in lynwood or the propsed boat in crete. either of those...are potentially financially devastating to the local boats.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/22/2011, 9:17 pm

the oracle wrote:
lifting the smoking ban would hurt local boats more then a chicago casino would...but that wouldnt be too significant a city located casino will not be competition for the hammond boat. it would cater to the convention and tourists set more then locals.
Huh? The shuttles from Chicago would dry up immediately and you'd lose the convention and tourists that you're now getting.
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the scary possibility to me is if they head back to the indians in lynwood or the propsed boat in crete. either of those...are potentially financially devastating to the local boats.
I don't know about those since Illinois has a long history of screwing up when it comes to gaming. With Rahm Emanual as the mayor,the Chicago boat is going to eventually happen.
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the oracle

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/23/2011, 3:42 am

thats what i said. chicago would get the tourists and conventions. hammonds boat currently gets a very small portion of those...and thus the loss of the would not be very significant
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Robin Banks

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/23/2011, 8:40 am

Just look at the number of Illinois plates in the parking garage. Also, keep an eye on the number of taxis from downtown. I think you are drastically underestimating the impact.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/23/2011, 2:09 pm

Robin Banks wrote:
Just look at the number of Illinois plates in the parking garage. Also, keep an eye on the number of taxis from downtown. I think you are drastically underestimating the impact.
I'm in complete agreement. The Horseshoe thrives because of it's proximity to Chicago. It's not going to go out of business or anything like that,but a Chicago casino would have a significant impact on their revenues.
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Robin Banks

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/23/2011, 3:36 pm

Don't forget that there will be hotels at the Chicago casino, something the Horseshoe sorely lacks. I think the cities and county would be well advised to start planning for diminished casino revenue. If it doesn't happen, great. But if it does, it is better to be prepared than not.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/30/2011, 6:00 pm

It's going to happen.....
House OKs Chicago casino, slots at O'Hare, Midway
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SPRINGFIELD --- A major gambling package won House approval today with provisions for a land-based casino in Chicago or a riverboat gambling palace on Lake Michigan, four more casinos around the state, and slot machines at racetracks and Chicago’s two airports.
If the plan makes it through the Senate and gets the governor's signature, it would be Illinois' biggest expansion of gambling in the more than two decades since the original riverboat gambling bill passed.

Supporters estimate the proposal would generate $1.4 billion in one-time upfront fees operators pay based on the number of positions they have. Estimates are to $500 million a year in tax revenue. That money would be distributed to education, public works projects and local governments.

The House voted 65-50, with two members voting present, in favor.

New Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel welcomed the news.

"I am pleased that the Ilinois House has approved legislation that allows for a casino in Chicago and I urge the Illinois Senate to act swiftly to pass this bill," Emanuel said in a statement. "A Chicago casino will spur local economic growth and provide jobs to Chicagoans, both needed to get our city moving again.
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BigFan

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/30/2011, 10:24 pm

One issue that will lead to revenue loss at the Hammond casino is the sane thing that happened in Gary / EC when the Horseshoe opened in 2008. The best casino workers we flee to greener pastures when a Chicago lakefront casino opens. This will effect the customer service at Hammonds casino much as it has majestic and ameristar.

It will be interesting to see the next move by horseshoe to protect their $500 million investment. Will they sell and move to the downtown sight? Do they expand further in hammond and build a hotel? Now that it seems to be happening in IL, the city of hammond better look toward conserving funds it receives now. With the IL market becoming saturated the horseshoe is sure to be effected. I guess the question is, is competition good for the casino business or are the gamblers just going to spread themselves thin???
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/30/2011, 11:56 pm

BigFan wrote:
One issue that will lead to revenue loss at the Hammond casino is the sane thing that happened in Gary / EC when the Horseshoe opened in 2008. The best casino workers we flee to greener pastures when a Chicago lakefront casino opens. This will effect the customer service at Hammonds casino much as it has majestic and ameristar.

True

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It will be interesting to see the next move by horseshoe to protect their $500 million investment. Will they sell and move to the downtown sight?

No,they have too much invested and they're still very profitable. Besides,they'll be many companies wanting to get that license and Emanuel has said in the past they he wants Chicago to own it. Whether he can can achieve that is another story. I'm sure the Horseshoe have their lobbyists on speed dial as we speak.
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Do they expand further in hammond and build a hotel?
I think they'll put any plans for that on hold until they see if the legislation gets passed in the current session which ends tomorrow or the next one.
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Now that it seems to be happening in IL, the city of hammond better look toward conserving funds it receives now.
Easier said than done.
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With the IL market becoming saturated the horseshoe is sure to be effected. I guess the question is, is competition good for the casino business or are the gamblers just going to spread themselves thin???
There are only so many gamblers and so many gambling dollars available. New casinos are not going to create very many new ones as there is no mystique about casino gambling anymore like there was in the past. You'll always get new players the same way bars and liquor stores get new ones when younger people attain the drinking age,but overall there will never be enough to make up for the increased competition and outlets. There are casinos now within 25 miles of every urban area. All expansion will do is further saturate the market and dilute the overall pool. A new casino in Chicago and one in the South suburbs will make it very challenging for the existing ones. I would expect to see either Gary or EC suffer the most because they are the ones who can least afford another hit and a bankruptcy wouldn't be all that surprising.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 12:24 am

If anyone still thinks that new casinos in Chicago and the South suburbs aren't going to siphon off existing revenues in NWI,just take a look at this:
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Gambling on big profits not a winning strategy

Indiana’s gambling revenues were down just slightly in 2010, a study from the accounting and consulting firm RubinBrown shows, while nationwide, receipts were essentially flat.

Prospects for higher revenues in Indiana are iffy.

Revenue at the 11 casinos (the study does not include the two horse-track racinos) was down 1.27 percent, while the number of admissions was down less than 1 percent.

Nationwide revenues were up about one-third of 1 percent.

Michigan City’s Blue Chip Casino “saw 30 percent of its potential revenue siphoned off by the Four Winds Casino located in New Buffalo, Michigan,” the report stated. “The Blue Chip also faces increased competition over existing revenues from both the Michigan-based Firekeepers and Gun Lakes tribal casinos.”

The Ohio River casinos in southeast Indiana could well see a drop-off next year, when a Cincinnati casino is scheduled to open.

The study is another reminder that gambling revenues are not recession-proof, especially when more casinos chase the same dollars.
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110415/EDIT07/304159998/1021/EDIT
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BigFan

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 7:01 am

Quote :
With the IL market becoming saturated the horseshoe is sure to be effected. I guess the question is, is competition good for the casino business or are the gamblers just going to spread themselves thin???
There are only so many gamblers and so many gambling dollars available. New casinos are not going to create very many new ones as there is no mystique about casino gambling anymore like there was in the past. You'll always get new players the same way bars and liquor stores get new ones when younger people attain the drinking age,but overall there will never be enough to make up for the increased competition and outlets. There are casinos now within 25 miles of every urban area. All expansion will do is further saturate the market and dilute the overall pool. A new casino in Chicago and one in the South suburbs will make it very challenging for the existing ones. I would expect to see either Gary or EC suffer the most because they are the ones who can least afford another hit and a bankruptcy wouldn't be all that surprising.[/quote]

If the Chicago casino is built, it may be designed to draw in new gamblers on a destination visit. Convention goers, vacationers, and other tourists may account for a new sect of gambler visiting atleast the new Chicago casino. Being that horseshoe is ~20 minutes away, many of those gamblers may decide to venture across the border to check out the horseshoe digs. Will the number of new gamblers entering the market offset the number of regulars horseshoe will lose as a result of the Chicago (and new south suburban) casino? Miklurch Tackle Shop on Indy Blvd was written off as dead when Cabelas open down the street. The new customers that entered the market have actually led to increased customer base for America's Last Great Bait and Tackle Outlet.

Is lost marsh a good site for horseshoe to purchase and develop further? The view isn't great, but no other casino offers a top tier golf facility on site. Not sure where it would fit in, but a hotel / spa near the course with constant bus trips between sites would make horseshoe a destination for convention goers looking for low rates on hotel stay and easy access to the conventions downtown.


Last edited by BigFan on 5/31/2011, 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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BigFan

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 7:04 am

BigFan wrote:
Quote :
With the IL market becoming saturated the horseshoe is sure to be effected. I guess the question is, is competition good for the casino business or are the gamblers just going to spread themselves thin???
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There are only so many gamblers and so many gambling dollars available. New casinos are not going to create very many new ones as there is no mystique about casino gambling anymore like there was in the past. You'll always get new players the same way bars and liquor stores get new ones when younger people attain the drinking age,but overall there will never be enough to make up for the increased competition and outlets. There are casinos now within 25 miles of every urban area. All expansion will do is further saturate the market and dilute the overall pool. A new casino in Chicago and one in the South suburbs will make it very challenging for the existing ones. I would expect to see either Gary or EC suffer the most because they are the ones who can least afford another hit and a bankruptcy wouldn't be all that surprising.

If the Chicago casino is built, it may be designed to draw in new gamblers on a destination visit. Convention goers, vacationers, and other tourists may account for a new sect of gambler visiting atleast the new Chicago casino. Being that horseshoe is ~20 minutes away, many of those gamblers may decide to venture across the boarder to check out the horseshoe digs. Will the number of new gamblers entering the market offset the number of regular horseshoe will lose as a result of the Chicago (and new south suburban) casino? Is lost marsh a good site for horseshoe to purchase and develop further? The view isn't great, but no other casino offers a top tier golf facility on site. Not sure where it would fit in, but a hotel / spa near the course with constant bus trips between sites would make horseshoe a destination for convention goers looking for low rates on hotel stay and easy access to the conventions downtown.
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Robin Banks

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 8:15 am

Keep in mind that the Horseshoe is a boat and can be moved. The silly regulations requiring it to be mobile and may end up biting us.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 10:06 am

BigFan wrote:

If the Chicago casino is built, it may be designed to draw in new gamblers on a destination visit. Convention goers, vacationers, and other tourists may account for a new sect of gambler visiting atleast the new Chicago casino.
I don't think that's likely. Keep in mind that most people have already long been exposed to casinos. People who want a gambling destination visit either Vegas or Atlantic City
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Being that horseshoe is ~20 minutes away, many of those gamblers may decide to venture across the boarder to check out the horseshoe digs.
Unless they're real degenerates,I doubt that. There is nothing that unique about the Horseshoe,other than maybe the Poker Room that would entice them and people usually prefer to visit the latest and greatest.
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Will the number of new gamblers entering the market offset the number of regular horseshoe will lose as a result of the Chicago (and new south suburban) casino?
No,No,No! Did you read what I posted about Blue Chip? What makes you think it would be different for Horseshoe. The same thing is going to happen to NWI.
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Is lost marsh a good site for horseshoe to purchase and develop further? The view isn't great, but no other casino offers a top tier golf facility on site. Not sure where it would fit in, but a hotel / spa near the course with constant bus trips between sites would make horseshoe a destination for convention goers looking for low rates on hotel stay and easy access to the conventions downtown.
I'd estimate they've got about 2 to 3 years to figure out what to do,maybe more considering how illinois has always previously managed to shoot themselves in the foot, before any new casinos open.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 10:20 am

Robin Banks wrote:
Keep in mind that the Horseshoe is a boat and can be moved. The silly regulations requiring it to be mobile and may end up biting us.
That's not really realistic. They would have to find a place to relocate and get a license and that's difficult with most destinations that allow casinos already spoken for.

What will happen is that there would be significant layoffs along with closing off parts of the casino so guests would be contained in a smaller area.

Wagering limits would also be greatly reduced to widen their customer base. That would put more pressure on EC & Gary and eventually bankrupt one of them which would probably be a goal of Horseshoe..
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Robin Banks

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 11:58 am

It could be towed to Navy Pier and parked there becoming an addition to Illinois' number one tourist destination.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 2:56 pm

Robin Banks wrote:
It could be towed to Navy Pier and parked there becoming an addition to Illinois' number one tourist destination.
No chance whatsoever. Navy Pier can stand on it's own, doesn't need a casino to attract people,and the last thing that Rahm Emanuel is going to sign off on is a used riverboat. There are plenty of other feasible sites. For example,the old Post Office,Block 37,the area around Michael Reese Hospital where the Olympic village was going to be.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   5/31/2011, 8:18 pm

Illinois Senate approves bill allowing casino in Chicago
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CHICAGO (Reuters) - Illinois state legislators on Tuesday passed a historic gambling expansion bill that would bring a casino to the city of Chicago.

The Illinois Senate passed the bill by a 30-27 vote Tuesday afternoon. The state's House of Representatives passed the bill on Monday. The bill now goes to Governor Pat Quinn.

The bill will also allow four additional casinos in Illinois as well as slot machines for racetracks and at Chicago's two airports.

Supporters of the legislation have said the bill will generate up to $1 billion in annual gambling revenues for the state. The city alone is facing a projected budget deficit of $700 million in the 2012 budget, according to city officials.

The legislation must be signed by Democratic Gov. Pat Quinn, who has said he is open to a Chicago casino but has expressed concerns about the scope of the gambling expansion in the bill.
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the oracle

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   6/1/2011, 3:31 am

no one ever agrees with me but i continue as i have for 15 years to remind everyone of the utter incapacity for the illinois legislature their governor and the mayor of the city of chicago to ever agree on anything to this level.

over that time theirs been repeated panic over the peotone airport and the comng chicago (and i maintain the more threatening potential of a south suburban casino) it will happen eventually and emanual could change the equation sooner then we hoosiers would like. but not as long as guys like mike madigan blago/quinn are in charge. yep one of these years ill be proved wrong im certain. but not yet. and thus far ive been right 14 times..
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   6/1/2011, 7:09 am

the oracle wrote:
no one ever agrees with me but i continue as i have for 15 years to remind everyone of the utter incapacity for the illinois legislature their governor and the mayor of the city of chicago to ever agree on anything to this level.

over that time theirs been repeated panic over the peotone airport and the comng chicago (and i maintain the more threatening potential of a south suburban casino) it will happen eventually and emanual could change the equation sooner then we hoosiers would like. but not as long as guys like mike madigan blago/quinn are in charge. yep one of these years ill be proved wrong im certain. but not yet. and thus far ive been right 14 times..
Oracle,I hate to break this to you but your 15 yr streak is officially over.
1) Legislation has actually been passed this time around and sent to the Gov for his signature.
2)Gov Quinn may kick and scream a little but in the end the state of Il is billions in debt and needs the money.
3) Rahm Emanuel is now the mayor. He's the one that deserves the credit for getting this passed and I have no doubt that he will convince Quinn to sign it despite any reservations he may have. After all,when was the last time he didn't get his way?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   6/1/2011, 4:02 pm

Pretty much confirms what I've said all along....

Quote :
June 1, 2011

News Release

Muncie, Ind. -- A new casino in Chicago could endanger already struggling gambling operations in nearby Gary, Hammond, Michigan City and East Chicago, Ind., says Ball State economist Michael Hicks.

The Illinois House of Representatives on Monday passed a gambling expansion bill that would bring a casino to Chicago.

In a study Hicks presented at the National Tax Association last fall, he found the opening of a casino in Chicago would lead to a significant decline in gambling-related income for Indiana's facilities.

State and local governments in northwest Indiana also could suffer, since many rely on tax revenues created by local casinos, the study found.

"The effect in northwest Indiana is especially bad, since a Chicago casino would likely be located between the region's five casinos and their largest customer base," says Hicks, director of Ball State's Center for Business and Economic Research (CBER). "This is precisely the strategy Ohio followed in authorizing its casinos. In those areas, we've witnessed serious reductions in the number of people coming across the border into Indiana."

It is probable that smaller casinos in the region will struggle significantly within a few months of the opening of a Chicago casino, he said. Gary has the smallest operation.

Source: Ball State University
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=47977&ts=true
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the oracle

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   6/1/2011, 5:12 pm

u watch the gov wont sign.

very predictable those illinoisans nobody snatches defeat from victory better then they can. october...now that could be different...but not now
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Think A Casino in Chicago Will Affect the Hammond Casino?   6/1/2011, 5:34 pm

the oracle wrote:
u watch the gov wont sign.
He'll whine and pout for a while and may be able to scale it back a little so he can save a little face,but the Chicago casino is going to happen.
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very predictable those illinoisans nobody snatches defeat from victory better then they can.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. Smile That being said....I predict the awarding of the casino in the South suburbs may very well turn into a clusterf*&k. I do not see that going smooth at all.

Meanwhile just relax....Horseshoe may eventually have to scale down a bit and tweak their target base,but it isn't going to leave or go out of business.
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