Trayvon Martin Death Investigation

happy jack wrote:

sparks wrote:

In Florida,the "Stand Your Ground" defense has been used successfully to allow gang members and wife beaters to escape any punishment for their crimes.

Could you provide a link for this?

Here is one link that contains several instances where killers used the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida to murder unarmed citizens and not be charged with a crime. The last two include a trespasser being shot in the back and two unarmed men murdered over the sale of a boat. I'm sure more more cases will come to light as increased scrutiny is focused on these immoral "Stand Your Ground" laws.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

More of the Bill Maher did it too defense strategy?

Employed by you, apparently.

Artie60438 wrote:

If I had a dollar for every time Breitbart & Co,Fox News,etc, deliberately lied or misled people I'd be a multi-millionaire.

[b]Are you suggesting that NBC did not deliberately mislead by running the edited version of the 911 call?

It would be nice of you could stick to the topic which is " Trayvon Martin Death Investigation" instead of trying to derail the thread with wingnut talking points from race baiting sites like Breitbart. You have yet to provide anything factual to the investigation.

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

More of the Bill Maher did it too defense strategy?

Employed by you, apparently.

Artie60438 wrote:

If I had a dollar for every time Breitbart & Co,Fox News,etc, deliberately lied or misled people I'd be a multi-millionaire.

[b]Are you suggesting that NBC did not deliberately mislead by running the edited version of the 911 call?

It would be nice of you could stick to the topic which is " Trayvon Martin Death Investigation" instead of trying to derail the thread with wingnut talking points from race baiting sites like Breitbart. You have yet to provide anything factual to the investigation.

In other words, you choose once again to play the Boredom/I-Have-My-Tail-Tucked-Between-My-Legs Card, your tried-and-true debating technique when you are unable to otherwise weasel out of giving an honest answer.
Come on, just this once pretend you have a spine and answer the following question:

Are you suggesting that NBC did not deliberately mislead by running the edited version of the 911 call?

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

More of the Bill Maher did it too defense strategy?

Employed by you, apparently.

Artie60438 wrote:

If I had a dollar for every time Breitbart & Co,Fox News,etc, deliberately lied or misled people I'd be a multi-millionaire.

[b]Are you suggesting that NBC did not deliberately mislead by running the edited version of the 911 call?

It would be nice of you could stick to the topic which is " Trayvon Martin Death Investigation" instead of trying to derail the thread with wingnut talking points from race baiting sites like Breitbart. You have yet to provide anything factual to the investigation.

In other words, you choose once again to play the Boredom/I-Have-My-Tail-Tucked-Between-My-Legs Card, your tried-and-true debating technique when you are unable to otherwise weasel out of giving an honest answer.

What I'm sick of is you deliberately derailing threads with wingnut talking points that have nothing to do with the actual subject. You previously started a thread http://www.werefree.org/t18467-what-took-you-so-long for those. Now you're injecting the same garbage into this thread. Why?

Scorpion wrote:

I was engaging in an academic discussion solely about whether "motive matters." (It does)

He knows it does. Without intent, you can't convict someone of murder. I already had this ridiculous roundabout discussion with him here, where he argued the entire legal concept of mens reas out of existence because we don't have psychics to prove what someone was thinking and rendered the 9/11 attacks an egregious act of murder manslaughter, a local crime, and only manslaughter unless prosecutors wasted the court's time and money lining up every resident in New York (as well as flying in others from around the country) to testify about how scared they were as a result.

It's silly, specious nonsense.

happy jack wrote:

And, of course, NBC is not engaging in race-baiting, are they?

No I don't think so. That's not my perception.

Quote :

Combine this with the constant use of the angelic photo of Trayvon Martin in juxtaposition to the mug shot of George Zimmerman and try to tell me with a straight face that there is no media bias in this case.

No problem.
"constant use"...? that's Horseshit.
When the story first broke all of the media including Fox 'News' was using the same two photos, most likely because those were the only two photos available.
Next day the other photos were being used including several of Martin and the one of Zimmerman in the coat and tie.
Your claim of the "constant use of the angelic photo of Trayvon Martin" is do-do.

Quote :

If you cannot see how this is a blatant attempt by NBC to skew the public's perception of George Zimmerman, then you are a very, very stupid person.
If you can see how this is a blatant attempt by NBC to skew the public's perception of George Zimmerman and deny that fact anyway, then you are a very, very dishonest person.

Seriously? That's what you're having a fit over? By using that one edited quote by ONE news source? Nope, sorry I don't buy it. You might have a case if you had evidence of NBC having a track record of editing like Fox 'News' has. Personally I don't think it's that big of a deal after you listen to ALL the 9-11 tapes and take EVERYTHING into context.

Quote :

Are you suggesting that NBC did not deliberately mislead by running the edited version of the 911 call?

Maybe is was, maybe it wasn't.
How do you know it was deliberate? What, you're a psychic?
If I were a conservative George Zimmerman apologist I would be more concerned about what's on THIS 9-11 tape and his history of violence.

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html?ref=black-voices

The 9-11 tape. IMHO, the "smoking gun"...or the "money quote"

Quote :

Zimmerman: Sh*t, he’s running!
911 Operator: He’s running? Which way is he running?

[sounds of Zimmerman's labored breathing and car door sounds]

Zimmerman: Down towards the, uh, other entrance of the neighborhood.
911 Operator: Okay, which entrance is that that he’s heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance.

[sounds of Zimmerman's labored breathing]

Zimmerman: Fuc*ing coons.
911 Operator: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
911 Operator: Okay, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.

And:

Quote :

Zimmerman:"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something … these assholes they always get away."

Question:
Why are Brent Bozell, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and every conservative George Zimmerman apologist conveniently ignoring the above quotes?
Is it a blatant attempt to skew the public's perception of George Zimmerman?

happy jack wrote:

sparks wrote:

In Florida,the "Stand Your Ground" defense has been used successfully to allow gang members and wife beaters to escape any punishment for their crimes.

Could you provide a link for this?

I ran across a piece on the problems that have been encountered because of "Stand Your Ground," if anyone is interested...

Stand-your-ground law had a sad history before Trayvon

Quote :

On Jan. 25, Roteta had apparently been trying to steal the radio from a truck owned by Greyston Garcia, parked outside his apartment in southwest Miami. Truck burglary’s a crime of course, but not a capital case. Not before 2005.

Garcia grabbed a large knife and chased the 26-year-old Roteta down the block. He caught up with Roteta, who was unarmed except for an unopened pocketknife in his pocket, and stabbed him to death. The confrontation was captured on a surveillance video.

Miami police were not nearly as cautious as the cops in Sanford. Garcia was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. But under the peculiarities of the stand-your-ground statute, the case never went to trial. Judge Bloom decided Wednesday that Garcia was immune from prosecution.

Quote :

At mid-afternoon on Aug. 11, 2009, a black Maxima chased a beige Infiniti at harrowing speeds down Old Cutler Road. Other cars veered off the road. One innocent motorist was sideswiped before the Infiniti crashed into a clump of bushes, the rear window blasted out, bullet holes in the trunk, spent cartridges littering the interior.

The driver of the Infiniti, Sujaye E. Henry, 26, was killed, slumped over the steering wheel, two bullet wounds in the shoulder, a third through his left eye socket. Here was a homicide brought on by reckless gunfire on a city street, spawned by a dispute over a drug deal. There was a time when Anthony Gonzalez Jr., 31, aka “White Boy,” a passenger in the pursing Maxima and the gunman who fired the fatal shot, might have faced harsh consequences.

The case never went to trial. Gonzalez, after all, as he fired away from the passenger seat, was acting under the permissive parameters of the Stand Your Ground doctrine.

Quote :

In 2009, after two FPL workers, in their blue shirts and pith helmets, approached Ernesto Che Vino’s mobile home in Northwest Miami-Dade to shut off the juice, Vino came storming out of the house with his rifle, cuffing one of the workers on the head then firing shots as the two ran for their truck. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge John W. Thornton, “following the dictates of Stand Your Ground,” decided that Vino’s claim that he feared for his life was not unreasonable. He tossed two counts of armed assault and one count of improper exhibition of a firearm.

It's really hard to see how any of the perps in the above incidents could have gotten off scot-free without the "Stand Your Ground" law.

happy jack wrote:

edge540 wrote:

Zimmerman: Fuc*ing coons.

And your source for this would be ….?

I was curious about it too, Jack. You can do a simple search for "fucking coons" and listen to the audio for yourself. The first time I listened to it, it definitely sounded like he said it. Then I found a clip from Anderson Cooper's show that isolated it and played it repeatedly. But the more I listened to it, the more it sounded like he said "fucking phone" or something.

In short, I don't think it's conclusive.

happy jack wrote:

I’m glad the author of this piece tackled his subject with no pre-conceived notions.


The killing of Trayvon Martin was only the most infamous Florida homicide complicated by the legal inanity known as “Stand Your Ground.”Police in Sanford, maddeningly hesitant in their dealings with the 28-year-old neighborhood watch zealot who shot young Martin, have been widely disparaged for citing the 2005 Florida statute that grotesquely altered the doctrine of self-defense.
But just last week, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom bolstered the Sanford cops’ contention that state law now trumps common sense. She sprang another stand-your-ground killer.
….

The Florida Supreme Court, trying to sort out the ineptly written law (a piece of boilerplate legislation contrived by the NRA) ruled that the immunity conferred by stand-your-ground was for a judge, not a jury, to decide.
….
Essentially, the law requires a judge to read the mind of any assailant who claims self-defense, no matter how outrageous the circumstances. Jurors, of course, would do a fine job of sorting out truly reasonable fears from all this hokum. No mind reading required.
….
The handling of that case, so far, has been a travesty. But the resolution of the Pedro Roteta killing, where the police moved aggressively, was also a travesty.

Yeah. Well it is an OP-ED piece. But if these incidents really happened as described, then the author's personal view isn't really important, is it?

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

sparks wrote:

In Florida,the "Stand Your Ground" defense has been used successfully to allow gang members and wife beaters to escape any punishment for their crimes.

Could you provide a link for this?

I ran across a piece on the problems that have been encountered because of "Stand Your Ground," if anyone is interested...

Stand-your-ground law had a sad history before Trayvon

Quote :

On Jan. 25, Roteta had apparently been trying to steal the radio from a truck owned by Greyston Garcia, parked outside his apartment in southwest Miami. Truck burglary’s a crime of course, but not a capital case. Not before 2005.

Garcia grabbed a large knife and chased the 26-year-old Roteta down the block. He caught up with Roteta, who was unarmed except for an unopened pocketknife in his pocket, and stabbed him to death. The confrontation was captured on a surveillance video.

Miami police were not nearly as cautious as the cops in Sanford. Garcia was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. But under the peculiarities of the stand-your-ground statute, the case never went to trial. Judge Bloom decided Wednesday that Garcia was immune from prosecution.

Quote :

At mid-afternoon on Aug. 11, 2009, a black Maxima chased a beige Infiniti at harrowing speeds down Old Cutler Road. Other cars veered off the road. One innocent motorist was sideswiped before the Infiniti crashed into a clump of bushes, the rear window blasted out, bullet holes in the trunk, spent cartridges littering the interior.

The driver of the Infiniti, Sujaye E. Henry, 26, was killed, slumped over the steering wheel, two bullet wounds in the shoulder, a third through his left eye socket. Here was a homicide brought on by reckless gunfire on a city street, spawned by a dispute over a drug deal. There was a time when Anthony Gonzalez Jr., 31, aka “White Boy,” a passenger in the pursing Maxima and the gunman who fired the fatal shot, might have faced harsh consequences.

The case never went to trial. Gonzalez, after all, as he fired away from the passenger seat, was acting under the permissive parameters of the Stand Your Ground doctrine.

Quote :

In 2009, after two FPL workers, in their blue shirts and pith helmets, approached Ernesto Che Vino’s mobile home in Northwest Miami-Dade to shut off the juice, Vino came storming out of the house with his rifle, cuffing one of the workers on the head then firing shots as the two ran for their truck. Miami-Dade Circuit Judge John W. Thornton, “following the dictates of Stand Your Ground,” decided that Vino’s claim that he feared for his life was not unreasonable. He tossed two counts of armed assault and one count of improper exhibition of a firearm.

It's really hard to see how any of the perps in the above incidents could have gotten off scot-free without the "Stand Your Ground" law.

Nice link, Scorpion. The gun lobby doesn't want to discuss the gun related violence that occurs because of laws like this. IMO, the NRA is insatiable in it's drive to pass pro gun laws with little or no regard to the lives that are destroyed by these laws. Every time a "Stand Your Ground" law or "Take your gun to work" law is passed, we lose the freedom to live lives that are not threatened by gun toting crazies.

happy jack wrote:

I don’t want to engage in any name-calling here, so I’ll let you choose for yourself how you wish to be characterized. Which will it be - very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest?

Really now.
That's special coming from someone who:
-insists there is no need for hate crime laws
-thinks Rush Limbaugh is not a race baiting hate monger
-makes the preposterous claim that a blatant racist joke is not racist
-claims that a photo of the president next to a photo of a chimpanzee is "just comedy"

UrRight wrote:

I can't recall specifically, but perhaps you guys out there can. Was there not a case where a white guy was dragged behind a pick-up truck and left to die - and the culpruts were black? I'm sure you can recall something of it - and I questioned just why there was no public outrage over it at the time, especially from the "Rainbow Coalition:, who IS suppose to cover people of all color.

Wow
You have that ass backwards, genius. Three white guys did that to
James Byrd, a black guy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27365080/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/dragging-death-texas-raises-tensions/

What on earth would make the FBI think that it was racially motivated?...anybody?

Quote :

Trayvon Martin Case Under Investigation by FBI

The FBI began a parallel investigation into the February death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on Monday.

FBI agents were spotted in the gated community in Sanford, Fla., where the teen was shot dead by 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman.

The agents are speaking with potential witnesses and investigating if the death of Martin was racially motivated, according to an FBI official who spoke to and confirmed the investigation to NBC News on Monday.

The state of Florida is conducting its own investigation with a special prosecutor looking into the case and two weeks ago the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division also announce that it would be looking into the possibility of civil rights violations.

Zimmerman's lawyer, Craig Sonner, has vehemently denied that the neighborhood watch captain's actions were motivated by race and maintains that his client acted in self-defense.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/trayvon-martin-case-under-investigation-by-fbi-72531/

happy jack wrote:

edge540 wrote:

What on earth would make the FBI think that it was racially motivated?...anybody?

If, as alleged, a black man attacked a 'white' Hispanic, racial motivation cannot really be ruled out, can it?

Uh no, I think "fucking coons" might have something to do with it. I'm pretty sure most sane, normal people would find that racist...ya think?