Trayvon Martin Death Investigation

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Please explain how he appeared "suspicious".

[b]I didn’t say he appeared suspicious – I said that Zimmerman claimed that he appeared suspicious.
Pay attention.

Goes to Zimmerman's lack of judgement. Martin was simply walking home.

Artie60438 wrote:

There is absolutely no doubt he was profiled.

happy jack wrote:

So what. As I stated earlier, there is no law preventing a civilian from profiling another person. None whatsoever.

It's what set-up the chain of events leading to martin's killing.

Artie60438 wrote:

In the 911 call Zimmerman is plainly heard saying "These assholes always get away". Perhaps you would also like to explain what he meant by that.

happy jack wrote:

I have no way of explaining what Zimmerman meant by that, but if I had to guess based only upon the information given, I would have to assume that he thought Martin was an asshole.

Having never met Martin,he had no basis for reaching that assumption.

Artie60438 wrote:

…. an overzealous wannabe cop who was majoring in criminal justice at a community college and whose
Grade Point Average was a whopping .5 at one time.

happy jack wrote:

Since you seem to regard that factoid as being somehow relevant to the situation , can you tell me what Martin’s GPA was?

Quote :

He got D’s in Introduction to Criminal Justice and Juvenile Delinquency, and a C in a course called Evil Minds -Violent Predators. He failed algebra and astronomy and had been placed on academic probation in 2011.

At one point, his grade-point average dropped to a .5. His A’s in English, criminal litigation and a Marriage and Family class boosted his overall G.P.A. to 2.3.

Legal experts said prosecutors probably reviewed Zimmerman’s school records because they could suggest that he had enough knowledge of criminal justice to concoct a self defense claim on the fly.

“To the extent that he had some knowledge of self defense, he would have been able to put together a story that made some sense,” said Frederick Leatherman, a retired Seattle defense lawyer and legal-issues blogger who has reviewed all the Zimmerman case evidence. “As he conjured up this story, he didn’t know that a lot of the forensics would not match.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/09/2943103/records-show-zimmerman-got-ds.html#storylink=cpy

Artie60438 wrote:

Goes to Zimmerman's lack of judgement. Martin was simply walking home.

We don’t know that with any certainty.

Artie60438 wrote:

…. he had no basis for reaching that assumption.

We don’t know that with any certainty.

Artie60438 wrote:

It's what set-up the chain of events leading to martin's killing.

We don’t know that with any certainty.

Artie60438 wrote:

He got D’s in Introduction to Criminal Justice and Juvenile Delinquency, and a C in a course called Evil Minds -Violent Predators. He failed algebra and astronomy and had been placed on academic probation in 2011.

At one point, his grade-point average dropped to a .5. His A’s in English, criminal litigation and a Marriage and Family class boosted his overall G.P.A. to 2.3.

I asked you for Martin’s GPA, not Zimmerman’s GPA.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Goes to Zimmerman's lack of judgement. Martin was simply walking home.

[b]We don’t know that with any certainty.

yeah we kinda do. Martin was on the phone with someone at the time of the incident.

Artie60438 wrote:

…. he had no basis for reaching that assumption.

happy jack wrote:

We don’t know that with any certainty.

There is no evidence that Martin was committing any crime. All we have is the word of someone who has already lied to the court...the Killer!

Artie60438 wrote:

It's what set-up the chain of events leading to martin's killing.

happy jack wrote:

We don’t know that with any certainty.

We do know that if the killer never left his truck Martin would have not been shot by him.

Artie60438 wrote:

He got D’s in Introduction to Criminal Justice and Juvenile Delinquency, and a C in a course called Evil Minds -Violent Predators. He failed algebra and astronomy and had been placed on academic probation in 2011.

At one point, his grade-point average dropped to a .5. His A’s in English, criminal litigation and a Marriage and Family class boosted his overall G.P.A. to 2.3.

happy jack wrote:

I asked you for Martin’s GPA, not Zimmerman’s GPA.

I missed that...it being such an idiotic question that has nothing to do with the case.

happy jack wrote:

Neither do I recall saying that Martin initiated the violence.
Did I say that?

No, you didn't. That's why I didn't say that you did.

I wrote:

But you seem convinced that Martin initiating the violence exonerates Zimmerman.

Was that an incorrect assessment? I couldn't tell, 'cause even with all your whining, you still failed to address my point.

So one more time:

happy jack wrote:

Zimmerman may be found to have been justified in using violence while standing his ground, if the jury decides that Martin initiated the violence.

Quote :

I'm not sure how that's possible unless Martin wan't entitled to it.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Martin was on the phone with someone at the time of the incident.

[b]Yes, which makes it a he said/she said situation, unless, of course, you happen to have an actual recording of the call. (Preferably, a recording which was not blatantly and misleadingly edited by NBC.)

Still worked up about NBC,yet I haven't heard a peep out of you concerning what Zimmerman's lawyers have been up to.
George Zimmerman’s Attorneys Misrepresented Evidence In Court

Quote :

Well, this isn’t something you want to have to admit to less than three weeks before your client goes on trial for murder:

Quote :

Attorneys for George Zimmerman apologized Sunday for mischaracterizing evidence they said boosted their theory that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor in his fatal meeting with their client last year.

Lawyer Mark O’Mara said during a hearing last Tuesday that the defense had obtained video footage of three fights, including one in which he said two of Martin’s friends “were beating up a homeless guy.”

But Zimmerman’s defense team corrected that statement on Sunday, saying O’Mara had unintentionally “misstated the nature” of the footage.

In a statement posted on Zimmerman’s website, the defense lawyers said the footage actually showed ”two homeless guys fighting each other over a bike.”

Now, I’ve made misstatements in the middle of a hearing myself sometimes. When you’re speaking extemporaneously, it sometimes happens. When you realize you did it, you correct the mistake, make the appropriate apologies, and move on. Nonetheless, this one strikes me as a pretty serious mistake, and one that is likely to influence the relationship between the Judge and the defense team as the trial moves forward.

Artie60438 wrote:

There is no evidence that Martin was committing any crime. All we have is the word of someone who has already lied to the court...the Killer!

happy jack wrote:

Conversely, there is no evidence that Zimmerman was lying in this instance.

Yes,but when a defendant has previously lied to the court it follows him through the trial

Artie60438 wrote:

It's what set-up the chain of events leading to martin's killing. We do know that if the killer never left his truck Martin would have not been shot by him.

happy jack wrote:

[b]We also know that if the two hadn’t encountered one another at that precise moment, or if Zimmerman had been looking the other way, or if Martin had not been in the neighborhood at all, or if Martin hadn’t attacked Zimmerman, as Zimmerman alleges, then this entire event may have never taken place. So there were a considerable number of factors that set up the chain of events. It cannot by any stretch be narrowed down to Zimmerman leaving his truck.

I was wondering when the straw man gibberish would start. What took you so long?

New evidence: George Zimmerman applied to become a cop but was turned down

Quote :

SANFORD – Prosecutors have filed paperwork, revealing that murder defendant George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down.

His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial, which begins Monday.

Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. He's the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, after calling police and describing the teenager as suspicious.

Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense. Prosecutors say he profiled the teenager, assumed Trayvon was about to commit a crime, followed and killed him.

The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown: Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work.

He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office that allows people to become more familiar with police work.

On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

Also today, authorities released information showing that they've set aside more space – including a site near last year's huge Trayvon Martin rally in downtown Sanford – as a protest or assembly area during Zimmerman's trial.

That area now includes two strips of lawn in front of the Seminole County criminal courthouse, where Zimmerman will stand trial; an area about 200 feet away at the nearby county juvenile courthouse and an area in the 300 block of Park Avenue in downtown Sanford that surrounds the county's civil courthouse.

That last location is near Fort Mellon Park, where an estimated 8,000 people gathered March 26, 2012, at a rally calling for Zimmerman's arrest.

Anyone surprised? Just like I said...an "overzealous wannabe cop".

Artie60438 wrote:

New evidence: George Zimmerman applied to become a cop but was turned down

Quote :

SANFORD – Prosecutors have filed paperwork, revealing that murder defendant George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down.

His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial, which begins Monday.

Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. He's the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, after calling police and describing the teenager as suspicious.

Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense. Prosecutors say he profiled the teenager, assumed Trayvon was about to commit a crime, followed and killed him.

The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown: Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work.

He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office that allows people to become more familiar with police work.

On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing.

A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

Also today, authorities released information showing that they've set aside more space – including a site near last year's huge Trayvon Martin rally in downtown Sanford – as a protest or assembly area during Zimmerman's trial.

That area now includes two strips of lawn in front of the Seminole County criminal courthouse, where Zimmerman will stand trial; an area about 200 feet away at the nearby county juvenile courthouse and an area in the 300 block of Park Avenue in downtown Sanford that surrounds the county's civil courthouse.

That last location is near Fort Mellon Park, where an estimated 8,000 people gathered March 26, 2012, at a rally calling for Zimmerman's arrest.

Anyone surprised? Just like I said...an "overzealous wannabe cop".

Well!
He wanted to be a police officer.
The nerve.
Why wait for the trial?
Let's just execute him now.

happy jack wrote:

Why wait for the trial?
Let's just execute him now.[/b]

I'll be pretty happy no matter what.
1st prize for conviction is a substantial term in prison.
2nd prize for acquittal? He gets to lead a life like Casey Anthony

happy jack wrote:

I guess we'll have to wait for the trial to find out who was entitled to stand his ground. It's certainly not for you or I to say, based upon our limited information at this time.

Just stop being a pussy and answer the question. My statement was an simple and uncomplicated hypothetical, one based on the assumption that Martin initiated the violence, just as yours was.

Honestly, is your argument so bereft of substance you have to dance around it with bullshit semantics?

happy jack wrote:

Zimmerman may be found to have been justified in using violence while standing his ground, if the jury decides that Martin initiated the violence.

Why? You made that statement prior to the trial being over. You shouldn't need to wait until it's concluded to explain it. So again, I'm not sure how that statement can be true unless Martin wan't entitled to "stand his ground".

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Why wait for the trial?
Let's just execute him now.[/b]

I'll be pretty happy no matter what.
1st prize for conviction is a substantial term in prison.
2nd prize for acquittal? He gets to lead a life like Casey Anthony

[b]That is the major difference that we have concerning this case.
I want Zimmerman to be punished if he is actually guilty, whereas you want Zimmerman to be punished even if he is innocent.
We both know that that is true, don't we?

Nope. As of now I firmly believe he is guilty. If Zimmerman can present compelling evidence I will change my opinion. However,lately in Fla there have been some horrendous not guilty verdicts.

happy jack wrote:

I'm just having trouble figuring out what your question is.

I don't know how to explain it any easier. You only have to look a few posts up. But I'll walk you through it anyway.

I wrote:

But you seem convinced that Martin initiating the violence exonerates Zimmerman.

True or false?

happy jack wrote:

I'm not trying to avoid answering your question(s).

Nor do I believe you. This was from a year ago:

I wrote:

happy jack wrote:

The Stand Your Ground laws state pretty clearly, unambiguously, and concisely how and when a victim may legally defend himself, without forcing said victim to have to memorize and interpret mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo in an already stressful, life-or-death situation.

Any actual before and after statutes to demonstrate said "mass quantities of legal mumbo-jumbo" and subsequent streamlining?

Direct citations of legal code should be easy. Most, if not all, are online now.

Has someone been reading my posts?
George Zimmerman wants ‘inflammatory terms’ banned from trial

Quote :

“Profiled”

“Vigilante”

“Self-appointed neighborhood watch captain”

“Wannabe cop”

Murder suspect George Zimmerman’s defense team wants these “inflammatory terms” banned from the opening statements of his trial. Jury selection begins on Monday.

“Some of these terms are disparaging, inappropriate, and if used in trial would serve only to unfairly prejudice the jury by eliciting unfounded connotations and unfair emotional responses,” defense attorney Mark O’Mara wrote in a motion to the court.

Prosecutors say Zimmerman, a volunteer crime watchman in his Sanford, Fla., neighborhood, profiled, pursued and fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in February 2012. Zimmerman, a licensed gun carrier and part-time criminal justice student, says he fired in self-defense after being attacked and beaten.

[Related: Judge: Zimmerman witnesses must testify publicly]

The request also asks that prosecutors be prohibited from using these phrases during opening statements:

“He got out of the car after the police (or dispatcher) told him not to.”

“He confronted Trayvon Martin.”

Motions seeking to limit evidence in a trial is not uncommon, but they seldom target phrases or characterizations.

“They are trying to head off anything that would already suggest to the jury that this guy is indeed guilty and you have not even heard the evidence yet,” said John Teakell, a veteran Texas defense attorney. “It’s a good move by the defense, and I can understand why they did it given all the publicity.”

Judge Debra S. Nelson has not yet ruled on the “inflammatory terms” motion. She recently ruled defense lawyers, in their opening statements, would not be permitted to mention pictures of drugs and guns found on Martin's cellphone.

Earlier on Thursday, Judge Nelson did turn down a separate defense request to let some witnesses testify out of the public eye. O'Mara said the witnesses are worried about their safety.

Zimmerman, 29, could face life in prison if convicted.

Why stop there? While they're at it,maybe they can ask the judge to not allow opening and closing statements by the P* or let them present their theories.

MSNBC To Provide Live, 'Continuing' Coverage Of George Zimmerman Trial

Quote :

MSNBC is about to do something it rarely does: cover a trial in-depth.

The network has watched as rivals like HLN and CNN have racked up huge ratings with wall-to-wall coverage of trials like Casey Anthony's and Jodi Arias's. May saw MSNBC fall to fourth place in the rankings as CNN rode the Arias wave with stellar results.

Just as the Arias trial came to a close, HLN began signaling that the next case it would focus on would be that of George Zimmerman, the man who shot the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012. This time, though, MSNBC also began promoting its own "complete" coverage of the Zimmerman trial, beginning on Monday, June 10th.

An MSNBC spokesperson told The Huffington Post that the network would provide "in-depth, continuing coverage" of the trial, and would "cover the criminal proceedings live as news warrants during our regularly scheduled programs."

The Zimmerman trial strikes a neat balance for MSNBC. It is sure to be followed closely, given how huge a scandal Martin's killing provoked. Yet it also touches on major questions of race and criminal justice, and carries few of the lurid, soapy overtones of the Anthony and Arias trial. By being willing to turn over much of its real estate to the trial, MSNBC is allowing itself to attract some of the audience that migrates to HLN and CNN during other cases, but can avoid the charge that it is dumbing itself down to increase ratings.

The network is also home to Al Sharpton, who, with his extremely close ties to the Martin family, can provide MSNBC with access that other networks may not be able to match.

Artie60438 wrote:

By being willing to turn over much of its real estate to the trial, MSNBC is allowing itself to attract some of the audience that migrates to HLN and CNN during other cases, but can avoid the charge that it is dumbing itself down to increase ratings.

We won't need to worry about MSNBC "dumbing itself down".
When you've hit the wall, you've hit the wall.

Artie60438 wrote:

The network is also home to Al Sharpton, who, with his extremely close ties to the Martin family, can provide MSNBC with access that other networks may not be able to match.

Perhaps Sharpton will finally shed the light of truth on this case, and we will find out that Martin was really killed by racist white cops and a white prosecutor, and was found covered in feces, with swastikas and the 'N-word' scrawled over his body.

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

By being willing to turn over much of its real estate to the trial, MSNBC is allowing itself to attract some of the audience that migrates to HLN and CNN during other cases, but can avoid the charge that it is dumbing itself down to increase ratings.

[b]We won't need to worry about MSNBC "dumbing itself down".
When you've hit the wall, you've hit the wall.

Wow That went right over your head.

Artie60438 wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

By being willing to turn over much of its real estate to the trial, MSNBC is allowing itself to attract some of the audience that migrates to HLN and CNN during other cases, but can avoid the charge that it is dumbing itself down to increase ratings.

[b]We won't need to worry about MSNBC "dumbing itself down".
When you've hit the wall, you've hit the wall.

Wow That went right over your head.

Over my head?
I don't think so.
What's their motto again?
MSNBC - where logic goes to die!