Happenings in Wisconsin

Buried in this bill is the following,It's on page 24:

Quote :

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state-owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

Walker's biggest donor in his campaign were the Koch brothers who just happen to own Koch Industries. I'm glad I don't live in Wisconsin.

happy jack wrote:

You capitalize the words 'Unions' and 'Collective Bargaining' the way some people capitalize the words 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'. To each his own deities, I reckon.

Seriously? He points out that yet another of your preconceived notion of this situation is completely wrong, and that's your rebuttal?

So how come it's high noon in Wisconsin?


The following link is from yesterday's Suntimes, and it clearly outlines what is going on with the gov. in Wisconsin.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/3925893-418/so-how-come-its-high-noon-in-wisconsin.html


So how come it’s high noon in Wisconsin?


By David Roeder Business Reporter/droeder@suntimes.com Feb 21, 2011 12:04PM


Related Stories

* Wisconsin Gov. Walker turns state into battleground for unions

Some questions and answers about the great budget showdown north of our border:

Q. What does Wisconsin’s governor want?

A. Republican Gov. Scott Walker wants most state workers to increase their pension contributions and to double contributions to their health insurance premiums. His plan would cut the average worker’s take-home pay by 8 percent. He also wants to undercut the bargaining rights of many unionized employees.

Q. Times are tough and everyone is taking cuts. Why are the unions so mad?

A. The wage cuts are one thing, but they regard the curbs on collective bargaining as a wholesale rollback of their rights. Walker’s bill would let unions bargain only on wages, not on benefits. And even wage increases would be limited to the Consumer Price Index without a voter referendum. Also, unions would have to collect their own dues and members wouldn’t be required to pay. Contracts would have a one-year limit, and to retain their right to represent the workers, each union would have to be recertified annually by a majority vote.

Q. What’s the savings to Wisconsin?

A. About $300 million over its two-year budget cycle, but that’s part of a $3.6 billion deficit.

Q. Why can’t the legislature vote on this?

A. The plan has strong support from Republicans, who control both chambers. But in the Senate, 14 Democrats fled the proceedings, denying the GOP the three-fifths quorum it needs to pass the bill and bringing all business to a halt.

Q. How long can this go on?

A. For a while. Walker dispatched the state police to look for the Democrats, but there are doubts about whether they can arrest the lawmakers, and everybody agrees Walker can’t have them dragged back over the state line. Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach told the Associated Press from a Chicago hotel that his colleagues are “scattered” outside of Wisconsin and that they won’t come back until Walker compromises.

Q. Any chance of a compromise?

A. Walker repeated Sunday that he has no intention of giving in. He has said that without his measure, some 6,000 state workers and almost as many local government workers will have to be laid off. Police and firefighters are exempt from any changes in collective bargaining.

Q. Why is Walker concentrating on such a divisive issue?

A. Walker has said bargaining with the unions takes too long and that the cumulative costs of their deals have to be reduced now. His critics counter that he has had public employee unions in his sights for a long time.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/3929312-418/wisconsin-gov.-walker-turns-state-into-battleground-for-unions

Click on this link if you want to read how Gov. Walker turns the state of Wisconsin into a battleground for unions.

Yesterday's edition.

I think it's pretty stupid for the Democrats to run and hide out of state. Spineless.

Today's update as to why Gov. Walker from Wisconsin "Won't back down!"

http://www.suntimes.com/3942461-417/wisconsin-gov.-scott-walker-wont-back-down

MADISON, Wis. — No resolution appeared imminent Monday to the stalemate over union rights in Wisconsin, leaving Senate Republicans resigned to forge ahead with less-controversial business such as tax breaks for dairy farmers and commending the Green Bay Packers on winning the Super Bowl.

As the standoff entered its second week, none of the major players offered any signs of backing down in a high-stakes game of political chicken that has riveted the nation and led to ongoing public protests that drew a high of 68,000 people on Saturday. Thousands more braved cold winds and temperatures in the 20s to march again on Monday, waving signs that said “Stop the attack on Wisconsin families” and “solidarity.”

The 14 Senate Democrats who skipped town Thursday to indefinitely delay a vote on Republican Gov. Scott Walker’s bill stripping most collective bargaining rights from nearly all public employees remained missing in action for a fifth day.

Walker refused to back down and again called on the Democrats to return and vote on the bill.

“For those 14 Senate Democrats, you’ve had your time,” he said. “It’s time for them to come back and participate in democracy.”

The Democrats have been far from in hiding. They’ve done numerous television interviews and two of them even participated, via telephone from an undisclosed location, in a brief meeting to schedule the Senate’s session today.

“You have shut down the people’s government, and that is not acceptable,” Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said to them during the meeting.

Both the Senate and Assembly planned to be in session today to take up the bill, but at least one of the missing Democrats needed to show up for a vote to be taken in the Senate. Assembly Democrats planned to offer dozens of amendments that could push a vote into Wednesday or later.

Although today’s list of items, including the resolution honoring the Packers, is largely bipartisan, Fitzgerald hinted that he might try to push more controversial ones later, even if the Democrats aren’t back. Among the possibilities is a vote on the question of whether voters should be required to show identification at the polls.

Democratic Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller said Democrats were waiting for Walker to compromise.

“It’s right in front of the governor,” Miller said. “He just needs to pick it up and allow us to move on. This is a no-brainer.”

Under one deal, the unions said they would accept paying more for benefits as Walker wants but still retain their collective bargaining rights. Another compromise offered by Republican Sen. Dale Schultz would remove collective bargaining rights just for two years.

Walker has repeatedly rejected both offers, saying local governments and school districts can’t be hamstrung by the often lengthy collective bargaining process and need to have more flexibility to deal with up to $1 billion in cuts he will propose in his budget next week and into the future.

As he spoke under heavy guard at a late afternoon news conference inside his conference room, thousands of protesters could be heard through the doors blowing whistles, banging on drums and chanting “Scott Walker has got to go!”

The emergency plan Walker wants the Legislature to pass would address this year’s $137 million shortfall and start dealing with the $3.6 billion hole expected by mid-2013. The benefits concessions would amount to $30 million this year, but the largest savings Walker proposed comes from refinancing debt to save $165 million.


___________________________________________________________________________

Can someone explain to me in layman's terms, why he would want to take "Collective Bargaining" away, when this is a "RIGHT"?

Here's one comment that struck a chord with me.


Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says that collective bargaining impedes progress in education. There are 5 states that do not have collective bargaining for teachers. Here is where they ranked in 2010 in regards to SAT/ACT scores: Virginia 44th, Texas 47th, Georgia 48th, North Carolina 49th and South Carolina 50th. Wisconsin Ranked 2nd in 2010

********************************************************************************
ME:

I understand and know what collective bargaining is. I just don't understand why a governor can or how he can remove it from the unions. Especially for teachers.

Does this have to do with unions contributing to Democrats?

happy jack wrote:

I find it hard to rebut opinions.

We can tell. You'd have an easier time if you actually based yours on facts, except...

happy jack wrote:

Facts? Well, that's a different thing entirely.

And that explains everything. The conservative worldview in a nutshell: facts are open for debate. Only by ignoring the facts can you get "death panels gonna kill gramma", Sarah Palin, global warming skepticism, "Obama insults half of the country", creationists, birthers, "America is a Christian Nation", "they hate us for our freedom", "Obama's a Muslim and Hitler too", Climategate, "Iraq has WMDs", the "coming Islamic caliphate" and whatever other unfounded, hilarious nonsense conservatives/Republicans have believed over the years.

Unsurprisingly, this isn't the first time the governor has tried such a stunt:



Classy. He's a partisan hack, pure and simple. Loved the bit at the end. These workers are fighting for the ability not to get screwed by the government in the future, something conservative rallied behind when the Tea Party was doing not so long ago, but now they're just way to eager to throw these working families under the bus simply because they might vote the wrong way.

voter3 wrote:

That is one hell of a tunnel to pop up in Chicago area. They are alive and well throughout the region. Hanging drywall siding and often electric and plumbing. Seems unfortunate they usually prey on fellow Hispanics. If they are not acting as unlicensed contractors they are working for someone who pays them under the table...not taxes and no insurance.

Yep, you bet'cha!

Poll: 61% oppose limiting union bargaining power
The public strongly opposes laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions as a way to ease state financial troubles, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.

The poll found that 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to one being considered in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law. [/quote]

happy jack wrote:

Heretic wrote:

happy jack wrote:

You capitalize the words 'Unions' and 'Collective Bargaining' the way some people capitalize the words 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'. To each his own deities, I reckon.

Seriously? He points out that yet another of your preconceived notion of this situation is completely wrong, and that's your rebuttal?

Scorpion wrote:

No, I don't think so, Jack....

It doesn't appear ....

This looks more and more like ....

If ....

He didn't refute anything I said; he merely engaged in unsubstantiated speculation - 'ifs' and 'maybes'. There was no basis for a rebuttal.

Yeah, well actually, I was just trying to be polite. I provided direct quotes from the Republican Majority leader and the Governor that clearly contradicted your contention that "it really doesn't need to be all or nothing."

I don't know how you can characterize direct quotes as "unsubstantiated." If one believes what the Governor and the leader of the Republicans are saying, then "all or nothing" is exactly what this is all about.

So do you believe them? Or do you still believe that the Republicans are merely engaging in "preemptive hardball?"

happy jack wrote:

Negotiations are not over, are they?

Yeah, well I don't want to belabor the point, but again, according to Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald...

Quote :

"You're not in negotiations. There is no negotiation," Fitzgerald said, cutting off one of the Democrats on the phone. "You need to get back to the floor of the Senate and offer any ideas you may have on final passage. That's where we're at. There is no negotiation."

I don't see how that can be interpreted as "the negotiations are not over."

You're correct about neither of us knowing how this whole thing is going to end. I have no frickin' idea.
All I know is that there is simply too much at stake here for the unions and the Democrats to agree to the terms that the Republicans have clearly characterized as non negotiable.

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:

happy jack wrote:

Negotiations are not over, are they?

Yeah, well I don't want to belabor the point, but again, according to Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald...

Quote :

"You're not in negotiations. There is no negotiation," Fitzgerald said, cutting off one of the Democrats on the phone. "You need to get back to the floor of the Senate and offer any ideas you may have on final passage. That's where we're at. There is no negotiation."

I don't see how that can be interpreted as "the negotiations are not over."

You're correct about neither of us knowing how this whole thing is going to end. I have no frickin' idea.
All I know is that there is simply too much at stake here for the unions and the Democrats to agree to the terms that the Republicans have clearly characterized as non negotiable.

It's possible that the terms wouldn't be so non-negotiable if the Democrats would come out of hiding in Illinois and actually attempt to negotiate.

I don't see how they can do that. IIRC, if even one of them "comes out of hiding," they can be dragged to the floor, and the Republicans can then proceed immediately, because a quorum would then exist. It's certainly not the Democrats who are refusing to negotiate. They have made numerous attempts by phone to resolve this, but the Republican have made it quite clear that they are hell bent on passing the legislation without any concessions whatsoever.

happy jack wrote:

What is wrong with trying to lure companies to one's own state?
Companies do not exist in a vacuum - they need employees, a supply of which would be provided by the good citizens of Wisconsin. If the companies employ people who had previously been out of work, as they almost certainly will, then citizens who hadn't been paying income tax prior to their new-found employment will begin paying income tax themselves, offsetting the tax break given to the newly-arrived companies.
It's win-win.

Sounds great in print, but I just don't think there's enough to suggest that it works as well as claimed.

happy jack wrote:

the alternative seems to be to scare companies away from one's state with prohibitive tax rates, causing the citizens of one's state to remain unemployed, and forcing them into utilizing the state's safety net mechanisms in order to survive.

I think there's very little evidence suggesting that's the case, too. American families are just broke, even those working, and it has little to do with businesses fleeing tax rates. Thanks to the continued (and worsening) income inequality, our government is broke too. But rather than trying to garner money from the businesses and individuals that can actually afford it, they seem more focused on punishing the working class and unemployed even further. That certainly isn't going to help.

And if it is all about businesses fleeing tax rates, then it definitely isn't a fix at all; every time a business moves they leave behind newly unemployed workers. All we end up doing is shuffling around the unemployed.

happy jack wrote:

All that time they are using up the state's resources, they will have no taxable income to contribute to the state's revenues. The money will be flowing one way only - out of the state's coffers.

Helping the poor, like foodstamps and unemployment benefits, has a GDP increase per dollar that's double or triple what it is for those tax cuts.

And I always have to giggle a little bit when ever a conservative worries about "resource use". I'd like to think you're finally coming around to the idea, but I have to doubt it.

Well, Wisconsin, then Indiana Demobrats are adding to IL sales taxes!!!!!

Looks like they love being Fleabags, rather than stand and vote...they ran.

Who's paying for their lodging and etc., while not doing their job?


Just read that the Wisc. teachers' pensions well exceed what they made while working.

Maybe this is the "CHANGE" POTUS meant.

Except the Democrats are not fulfilling their representation, the "FOR THE PEOPLE , BY THE PEOPLE", etc.

Vote with your head, not with your feet, you FLEABAGS! I don't care if the R or D is after your name.

My guess is that there is going to be a HUGE gov't shut-down unless the FEDS don't demand from their employees the public pays for to tighten the belt....and leave the public unions out of this, at this point.

START with the FEDS/STATE/LOCAL - them come crying to those that pay their health insurance, the per diem. the whole nine yards they enjoy.

I quit the gov't back in the '70s because I saw the waste.