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Artie60438



Posts : 9729

PostSubject: Re: The TIC   8/13/2018, 5:00 pm

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No one pays for my right to firearms.

Exactly (Well, ignoring the millions of dollars associated with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that are victims of gun violence each year, levels not seen in other countries.  But yes, no direct monetary cost.)
I beg to differ on the cost associated with gun violence as a result of the Trump Worshiping Gun Nut's right to carry a gun.
A breakdown of the $229 billion gun violence tab that American taxpayers are paying every year
Quote :
American taxpayers pay roughly $12.8 million every day to cover the costs of gun-related deaths and injuries— and that is a conservative estimate, according to a new report released by Mother Jones on the cost of gun violence in America.

The true cost, however, is not fully known, partly because of the vast sum that's been spent by the NRA and other gun rights activists to shut down research related to firearms, and partly because of the sheer number of expenses incurred when someone is shot.

What is known is that taxpayers cover roughly 87% of these costs, which include, but are not limited to:
Medical treatment

"Maybe $5 million?" responded one woman when asked how much her gun wound had cost between hospital bills, physical therapy, trauma counseling, in-home care, wheelchairs, customized vans, and lost income. Many people also have long-term problems such as bowel issues, arthritis problems, and chronic pain that keeps them hooked on pain medication and returning to the hospital.
Legal fees

Legal proceedings for the Aurora movie theater killer reached $5.5 million before the trial even got underway this spring — calling 9,000 prospective jurors to try the sole suspect, James Eagan Holmes, proved expensive.

Long-term prison costs


Keeping individuals charged with a gun-related crime costs the government and taxpayers more than $5.2 billion annually. It is the largest direct expense incurred by gun violence, according to Mother Jones.
Long-term medical and disability expenses

Victims of gun violence often suffer injuries so severe that they require round-the-clock care for the rest of their lives — and survivors can often live much longer than expected. The kind of skilled nursing care needed for a victim who is paralyzed or brain damaged can cost "upwards of $1.7 million." If the victim is a Medicaid patient, taxpayers foot the bill.
Mental health care

Trauma from gun injuries and homicides account for $410 million annually in direct mental-health costs, according to Mother Jones. "But that sum would rise substantially if all gun victims and their families could afford to seek counseling."

Trauma from gun injuries and homicides account for $410 million annually in direct mental-health costs, according to Mother Jones. "But that sum would rise substantially if all gun victims and their families could afford to seek counseling."

Emergency services

A 5-mile ambulance ride for a single victim can cost upwards of $800. Combined with the fees of inumerable other emergency services, each gun injury requiring hospitalization costs about $583,000.
Police investigations

When even one person dies or is injured in a shooting, officers are required to respond and launch a full investigation into the attack. As Mother Jones notes, when a gunman opened fire at a shopping complex near Portland, Oregon in December 2012, "more than 150 officers from at least 13 local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies responded. The investigation that lasted more than three months and culminated in a report nearly 1,000 pages long." These lengthy investigations are largely paid for by taxpayers.

Security enhancements


Tightening security at schools (hiring security guards, paying for metal detectors, etc.) to prevent mass shootings has cost the federal government at least $811 million since the Columbine High School massacre in 1999. That sum is rivaled by investments being made at the state and local level, with many school districts buying "bulletproof" backpacks for students, purchasing police officers' time to practice "active-shooter" drills, and testing out "active-shooter detection" systems that costs as much as $100,000.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   8/14/2018, 8:31 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No one pays for my right to firearms.

Exactly (Well, ignoring the millions of dollars associated with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that are victims of gun violence each year, levels not seen in other countries.  But yes, no direct monetary cost.)

Yes, you probably should ignore those millions of dollars, inasmuch as my right to firearms is not what causes that money to be spent as the result of gun violence.



Artchel 60438 wrote:
Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No one pays for my right to firearms.

Exactly (Well, ignoring the millions of dollars associated with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that are victims of gun violence each year, levels not seen in other countries.  But yes, no direct monetary cost.)


I beg to differ on the cost associated with gun violence as a result of the Trump Worshiping Gun Nut's right to carry a gun.

You may beg to differ all you wish, but that doesn't alter the fact that my right to carry a gun is in no way responsible for violence caused by others.
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Artie60438



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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   8/14/2018, 9:13 am

Trump Worshiping Gun Nut wrote:

Artie Wins Again wrote:
Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No one pays for my right to firearms.

Exactly (Well, ignoring the millions of dollars associated with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that are victims of gun violence each year, levels not seen in other countries.  But yes, no direct monetary cost.)


I beg to differ on the cost associated with gun violence as a result of the Trump Worshiping Gun Nut's right to carry a gun.

You may beg to differ all you wish, but that doesn't alter the fact that my right to carry a gun is in no way responsible for violence caused by others.
No,but if guns were banned the costs associated with them would go down enormously. Not that someone who advocates for the murder of school children like you have would actually care. Sleep
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   8/14/2018, 11:04 am

Artie60438 wrote:
Trump Worshiping Gun Nut wrote:

Artie Wins Again wrote:
Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No one pays for my right to firearms.

Exactly (Well, ignoring the millions of dollars associated with the hundreds of thousands of Americans that are victims of gun violence each year, levels not seen in other countries.  But yes, no direct monetary cost.)


I beg to differ on the cost associated with gun violence as a result of the Trump Worshiping Gun Nut's right to carry a gun.

You may beg to differ all you wish, but that doesn't alter the fact that my right to carry a gun is in no way responsible for violence caused by others.
No,but if guns were banned the costs associated with them would go down enormously. Not that someone who advocates for the murder of school children like you have would actually care. Sleep

You seem to have this all wrong, Rachel. Whereas I have never advocated for the murder of schoolchildren, you have quite clearly advocated for the murder of police officers. (See below.)
You might want to put down your Jazz Jennings doll and concentrate on getting your story straight.



happy jack wrote:
Perhaps Artie will comment on this after the effect of his/her celebratory champagne wears off.



http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/us/ferguson-protests/index.html

State, county police take over Ferguson protest security after shooting

By Greg Botelho, CNN

Updated 4:59 PM ET, Thu March 12, 2015

(CNN)With tensions running high after the shooting of two officers in Ferguson, Missouri, state and county police are once again taking over protest security in the St. Louis suburb.
St. Louis County Police and the Missouri State Highway Patrol will "assume command of the security detail regarding protests" at 6 p.m. (7 p.m. ET), St. Louis County Police said in a statement.
Ferguson Police will remain responsible for "routine policing services" in the city, the statement said.
The takeover comes less than a day after two police officers standing guard outside Ferguson police headquarters were shot in what St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar called an "ambush," spurring a manhunt for those responsible for targeting the line of officers.
"We could have buried two police officers," Belmar told reporters. "... I feel very confident that whoever did this ... came there for whatever nefarious reason that it was."
The shots rang out shortly after midnight, at the end of a protest against the Ferguson Police Department. That department has been under fire since one of its officers, Darren Wilson, shot and killed black teen Michael Brown in August, and more recently since a scathing U.S. Department of Justice report came out documenting a pattern of racial discrimination.


………



Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Perhaps Artie will comment on this after the effect of his/her celebratory champagne wears off.
Some might say they brought this on themselves...Kinda like when you keep poking a dog and then you're surprised when it bites you.
Ferguson Police Routinely Violate Rights of Blacks, Justice Dept. Finds
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   8/30/2018, 9:51 am

U.S. is denying passports to Americans along the border, throwing their citizenship into question

Quote :
Juan is one of a growing number of people whose official birth records show they were born in the United States but who are now being denied passports — their citizenship suddenly thrown into question. The Trump administration is accusing hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Hispanics along the border of using fraudulent birth certificates since they were babies, and it is undertaking a widespread crackdown.

In a statement, the State Department said that it “has not changed policy or practice regarding the adjudication of passport applications,” adding that “the U.S.-Mexico border region happens to be an area of the country where there has been a significant incidence of citizenship fraud.”

But cases identified by The Washington Post and interviews with immigration attorneys suggest a dramatic shift in both passport issuance and immigration enforcement.

In some cases, passport applicants with official U.S. birth certificates are being jailed in immigration detention centers and entered into deportation proceedings. In others, they are stuck in Mexico, their passports suddenly revoked when they tried to reenter the United States. As the Trump administration attempts to reduce both legal and illegal immigration, the government’s treatment of passport applicants in South Texas shows how U.S. citizens are increasingly being swept up by immigration enforcement agencies.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/11/2018, 10:24 pm

happy jack wrote:


If I don't vote for the Republican candidates, then I would be forced to vote for the Democrat candidates, and I'll take corrupt over crazy, any day of the week.

Yeah. Well that's the kind of attitude that put a deeply dishonest psycho in the White House.  You may not have voted for him, but you sure haven't criticized him much... in fact, I could be wrong, but I don't think you've said anything negative about him at all.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/12/2018, 3:07 pm

Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one. That's what I'm most interested in understanding.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/12/2018, 7:44 pm

Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?
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Artie60438



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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 8:04 am

Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?
Sorry but the Trump Worshiping Gutless Coward has been too busy making a fool of himself on the 4 years of whining thread.
Good luck getting anything that resembles an honest answer to your legitimate questions.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 10:12 am

Artie60438 wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?
Sorry but the Trump Worshiping Gutless Coward has been too busy making a fool of himself on the 4 years of whining thread.  
Good luck getting anything that resembles an honest answer to your legitimate questions.

Our questions are not about "Trump Worship."  IMHO, that's not a constructive approach to a discussion. I'm looking for honest discussion about Trump in this thread.
No offense, but your long running feud with Jack doesn't interest me, and certainly has no place in this thread. If either of you want to continue on that road, please confine it to the "whining" thread.

Thanks!
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Artie60438



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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 10:19 am

Scorpion wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?
Sorry but the Trump Worshiping Gutless Coward has been too busy making a fool of himself on the 4 years of whining thread.  
Good luck getting anything that resembles an honest answer to your legitimate questions.

Our questions are not about "Trump Worship."  IMHO, that's not a constructive approach to a discussion. I'm looking for honest discussion about Trump in this thread.
Hahaha...Like I said...Good luck with that.
Scorpion wrote:
No offense, but your long running feud with Jack doesn't interest me, and certainly has no place in this thread. If you want to continue on that road, please confine it to the "whining" thread.

Thanks!
No offense taken. Will do.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 10:20 am

Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?

Yes, I do.
Trump, as an individual, is a boorish asshole.
But his Presidency has thus far served one very important purpose, in my view. The very idea that he is actually in the White House has caused those on the Left to show their true colors to the general public, and that is something they will never be able to take back. Their behavior is not any grand revelation to me, of course - I've long known what they were like. Whereas once they were the crazy uncle who everyone pretended didn't exist and who locked himself in his bedroom, they are now the crazy uncle who sneaks out of his bedroom on Thanksgiving, shits on the turkey, and causes everyone at the table to say,"Wow, I never knew he was that crazy." The service they are providing conservatives is invaluable, and I can only see it getting better and better as time goes on.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 11:05 am

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?

Yes, I do.
Trump, as an individual, is a boorish asshole.
But his Presidency has thus far served one very important purpose, in my view. The very idea that he is actually in the White House has caused those on the Left to show their true colors to the general public, and that is something they will never be able to take back. Their behavior is not any grand revelation to me, of course - I've long known what they were like.

Who, exactly, are they?   What are the "true colors" that you believe they're showing?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/13/2018, 4:17 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Heretic wrote:
Nor has he even attempted to explain how a Democratic Presidency would still be worse than the current Republican one.  That's what I'm most interested in understanding.

Yep.  I  mean, WTF?   If we're not going to discuss the fucking issues, then what's the fucking point?

Got anything at all to say about this train wreck of a Presidency, Jack?

Yes, I do.
Trump, as an individual, is a boorish asshole.
But his Presidency has thus far served one very important purpose, in my view. The very idea that he is actually in the White House has caused those on the Left to show their true colors to the general public, and that is something they will never be able to take back. Their behavior is not any grand revelation to me, of course - I've long known what they were like.

Who are they?  What are the "true colors" that you believe they're showing?  

"They" are:

Antifa
Maxine Waters
The wearers of pussyhats
Kathy Griffin
The Democrats who embarrassed themselves during the Kavanagh hearings
Those who call for safe spaces
Michael Moore
Those who call for Trump's impeachment, but when asked, "On what grounds?", have no answer
Hillary Clinton
Those screaming 'Russia, Russia, Russia
Proprietors who throw customers out of their establishments for wearing a MAGA hat
Ocasio-Cortez
Those who demand that ICE be abolished
Those who claim that any and all people who voted for or who support Trump are complete, horrible racists


That's who "they" are, and those are just the ones off the top of my head.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/14/2018, 8:26 am

Whoops!
Almost forgot about 'Spartacus'.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/14/2018, 11:52 am

happy jack wrote:
Whoops!
Almost forgot about 'Spartacus'.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm swamped today, and I'll get back to this thread...  but wouldn't the Spartacus thing be a part of what you call "The Democrats who embarrassed themselves during the Kavanagh hearings?"
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/14/2018, 12:24 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Whoops!
Almost forgot about 'Spartacus'.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm swamped today, and I'll get back to this thread...  but wouldn't the Spartacus thing be a part of what you call "The Democrats who embarrassed themselves during the Kavanagh hearings?"

Apologies from Captain Redundant.

Smile
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/14/2018, 3:22 pm

Scorpion wrote:
What are the "true colors" that you believe they're showing?

Very curious to read that answer, as well as why it's so important.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/14/2018, 4:21 pm

happy jack wrote:
Trump, as an individual, is a boorish asshole.

But any actual thoughts on the current policies and effects of this Presidency? Attacking a who's who list of Fox News/National Review boogeymen is a lazy (and expected) dodge of obvious, relevant, and far more impactful issues (unless you can explain how that's not the case).

Why you hate "The Left" will be a great discussion, but I just don't want it to interfere with what Scorpion originally asked, which is why you don't (or do?) hate the current state of the GOP and the Presidency.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/15/2018, 12:15 pm

Heretic wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
What are the "true colors" that you believe they're showing?

Very curious to read that answer, as well as why it's so important.

Yep. I'm curious too....


Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Trump, as an individual, is a boorish asshole.

But any actual thoughts on the current policies and effects of this Presidency? Attacking a who's who list of Fox News/National Review boogeymen is a lazy (and expected) dodge of obvious, relevant, and far more impactful issues (unless you can explain how that's not the case).

Why you hate "The Left" will be a great discussion, but I just don't want it to interfere with what Scorpion originally asked, which is why you don't (or do?) hate the current state of the GOP and the Presidency.


Yeah... Jack - Your answer is only the response to "Who are they?"  What about the "true colors" part? And how about the current state of the GOP and the Presidency itself?

While we wait for the answers, I'll play... Let's discuss the first entry on your list ....

Antifa

For brevity, let's just go to Wikipedia on this... Here's a sample of what academia says
about them...


Quote :
Antifa movements have provoked varying reactions within the academic community; Noam Chomsky described them as "a major gift to the right",[78] while historian Mark Bray said, "Given the historical and current threat that white supremacist and fascist groups pose, it's clear to me that organized, collective self-defense is not only a legitimate response, but lamentably an all-too-necessary response to this threat on too many occasions."[79] Anti-fascist author and organizer, Alexander Reid Ross said that antifa groups represented, "one of the best models for channeling the popular reflexes and spontaneous movements towards confronting fascism in organized and focused ways."

So tell me... Do you deny that there is has been an increase in white supremacist activity?  Remember Charlottesville?  Nevertheless, I agree with Chomsky on this one... for now.

But you know what?  I detest Nazis. Somebody has to fight back against the rise of the White Supremacists, don't you think?  

Quote :
Antifa" is an umbrella term for a loose collection of groups, networks and individuals.[11] Since it is composed of autonomous groups, and thus has no formal organization or membership,[16][33] it is impossible to know how many groups are active. Antifa groups either form loose support networks, such as NYC Antifa, or operate independently.[34] Activists typically organize protests via social media and through websites and email lists.[16][33] Some activists have built peer-to-peer networks, or use encrypted-texting services like Signal.[35] According to Salon, it is an organizing strategy, not a group of people.[36] While its numbers cannot be estimated accurately, the movement has grown since the 2016 presidential election and approximately 200 groups currently exist in the US, of varying sizes and levels of engagement


OK. So it appears that the Antifa movement has grown since Trump won.  So has White Supremacist activity.  How is this a good thing?  Didn't you imply that this was some kind of "benefit"...?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/18/2018, 10:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:
 

Yeah... Jack - Your answer is only the response to "Who are they?"  What about the "true colors" part?

If you read anything other than ThinkProgress, the "they" and the "true colors" parts shouldn't really require further explanation. My list is just a small, off-the-cuff roster of those who need to be fitted for a strait-jacket (except for maybe Hillary, who should just go away. Also, Aunt Esther's and Michael Moore's "true colors" have pretty much always been on display).


Antifa
Maxine Waters
The wearers of pussyhats
Kathy Griffin
The Democrats who embarrassed themselves during the Kavanagh hearings
Those who call for safe spaces
Michael Moore
Those who call for Trump's impeachment, but when asked, "On what grounds?", have no answer
Hillary Clinton
Those screaming 'Russia, Russia, Russia
Proprietors who throw customers out of their establishments for wearing a MAGA hat
Ocasio-Cortez
Those who demand that ICE be abolished
Those who claim that any and all people who voted for or who support Trump are complete, horrible racists


Scorpion wrote:
 

And how about the current state of the GOP and the Presidency itself

Kind of a broad question; anything specific you have in mind?
At any rate, the nuts and bolts of politics bore me, in general. If you’ve noticed, the bulk of my posting runs along the lines of social issues and attitudes, not politics.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/18/2018, 11:09 pm

happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:
 

And how about the current state of the GOP and the Presidency itself

Kind of a broad question; anything specific you have in mind?
At any rate, the nuts and bolts of politics bore me, in general. If you’ve noticed, the bulk of my posting runs along the lines of social issues and attitudes, not politics.

So our foreign policy bores you?  How about our economy?  Do you care about that?  It's all politics, Jack. Do you really think that "social issues and attitudes" are somehow separate from politics?  

And I'd really appreciate some kind of response to the questions in the Antifa portion of my post, if that's not too much of a burden.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/19/2018, 4:32 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:

Scorpion wrote:
 

And how about the current state of the GOP and the Presidency itself

Kind of a broad question; anything specific you have in mind?
At any rate, the nuts and bolts of politics bore me, in general. If you’ve noticed, the bulk of my posting runs along the lines of social issues and attitudes, not politics.

So our foreign policy bores you?  How about our economy?  Do you care about that?  

Those are not things that keep me awake at night.



Scorpion wrote:
 


And I'd really appreciate some kind of response to the questions in the Antifa portion of my post, if that's not too much of a burden.

Scorpion wrote:
 
While we wait for the answers, I'll play... Let's discuss the first entry on your list ....

Antifa

For brevity, let's just go to Wikipedia on this... Here's a sample of what academia says
about them...


Quote :
Antifa movements have provoked varying reactions within the academic community; Noam Chomsky described them as "a major gift to the right",[78] while historian Mark Bray said, "Given the historical and current threat that white supremacist and fascist groups pose, it's clear to me that organized, collective self-defense is not only a legitimate response, but lamentably an all-too-necessary response to this threat on too many occasions."[79] Anti-fascist author and organizer, Alexander Reid Ross said that antifa groups represented, "one of the best models for channeling the popular reflexes and spontaneous movements towards confronting fascism in organized and focused ways."

So tell me... Do you deny that there is has been an increase in white supremacist activity?  Remember Charlottesville?  Nevertheless, I agree with Chomsky on this one... for now.

But you know what?  I detest Nazis. Somebody has to fight back against the rise of the White Supremacists, don't you think?  

Quote :
Antifa" is an umbrella term for a loose collection of groups, networks and individuals.[11] Since it is composed of autonomous groups, and thus has no formal organization or membership,[16][33] it is impossible to know how many groups are active. Antifa groups either form loose support networks, such as NYC Antifa, or operate independently.[34] Activists typically organize protests via social media and through websites and email lists.[16][33] Some activists have built peer-to-peer networks, or use encrypted-texting services like Signal.[35] According to Salon, it is an organizing strategy, not a group of people.[36] While its numbers cannot be estimated accurately, the movement has grown since the 2016 presidential election and approximately 200 groups currently exist in the US, of varying sizes and levels of engagement


OK. So it appears that the Antifa movement has grown since Trump won.  So has White Supremacist activity.  How is this a good thing?  Didn't you imply that this was some kind of "benefit"...?



I will take you at your word that there has been an increase in white supremacist activity (or at least an increase in the reporting of such activity). Just in case it needs to be said, I have no fondness for Nazis, either. But isolated incidents such as Charlottesville aside, I would rather live in a country where those of all ideologies, Nazis included, are allowed to freely and peacefully assemble and speak, regardless of their message, than to live in a country where any speech that displeases Antifa is allowed to be shut down violently. If you look at the article below, other than the Charlottesville incident, there is not a whole lot of Nazi-fighting going on when it comes to Antifa, so please don't confuse them with, or compare them to, the boys who stormed Omaha beach on D-Day.



https://www.dailywire.com/news/20343/timeline-antifa-violence-january-–-august-2017-frank-camp


A Timeline Of Antifa Violence: January – August 2017

By Frank Camp
@frankdcamp

August 28, 2017

Groups of Antifa protesters have become increasingly violent over the past year, vandalizing and destroying property, and attacking those they perceive to be “fascists.” Members of Antifa, short for “anti-fascist,” share an amorphous ideology which loosely borrows ideas from a multitude of seemingly-contradictory ideologies, including Marxism, and anarchism.
In the first eight months of 2017, Antifa has rioted in dozens of cities across the United States, leaving a trail of burning rubble and broken people in their wake.
The following is a timeline of Antifa violence from January through August of this year:
January 20
On Inauguration Day, Antifa members rioted in downtown D.C., leading to the arrest of at least 217 people, according to CNN.
… black-clad "antifascist" protesters smashed storefronts and bus stops, hammered out the windows of a limousine and eventually launched rocks at a phalanx of police lined up in an eastbound crosswalk.
Six police officers were injured in the riots.

CNN reports that protests in New York, Portland, and Seattle also turned violent:
In New York, nine people were arrested for disorderly conduct, according to the New York Police Department. Authorities said five people were arrested at a protest in Dallas, six in Chicago.
In Portland, Oregon, protesters were armed with clubs, sticks and throwing unknown liquid at officers, according to the Portland Police Department. Six people were arrested in Portland Friday, Portland Police Sgt. Pete Simpson tells CNN.
In Seattle, people threw bricks and other items at officers during a demonstration on the the University of Washington campus, city police said.
In D.C., a limousine was vandalized and set on fire. The chauffeur limo belonged to Muslim immigrant, Muhammad Ashraf:

February 1
Prior to a planned speech by Milo Yiannopoulos at the University of California at Berkeley, Antifa members and a coalition of “Black Bloc” rioters devastated the campus, causing approximately $100,000 in damages, according to CNN.
Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held. At least six people were injured.
… The violent protesters tore down metal barriers, set fires near the campus bookstore and damaged the construction site of a new dorm. One woman wearing a red Trump hat was pepper sprayed in the face while being interviewed by CNN affiliate KGO.

March 4
In Berkeley, California, a pro-Trump march was violently disrupted by Antifa rioters. According to The Washington Post:
A planned “March 4 Trump” demonstration held at the city’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park — several blocks from the University of California at Berkeley campus — escalated after fights broke out between those who had shown up for the event and counter-protesters. …
Other items, such as bricks and baseball bats, were confiscated as well.
The Los Angeles Times writes: “Berkeley Police Officer Byron White said 10 arrests were made: one for resisting arrest, four for assault with a deadly weapon, including a dagger, and five for battery. About seven medical evaluations were made on the scene. None of the injured wanted to be taken to the hospital.”

April 15

A Pro-Trump demonstration in Berkeley, California, was disrupted when black-clad protesters showed up.
According to CBS News:
Police in Berkeley, California, say 13 people have been arrested and knives and makeshift weapons confiscated after violence erupted at a park where factions that support and oppose President Trump gathered for Tax Day rallies.
...Officials say officers have confiscated knives, flagpoles, helmets and sticks with signs on them, things that were being used as weapons.

May 1
A May Day rally in Portland, Oregon, descended into chaos when the “anti-fascists” showed up, attacking police officers and setting fires.
NPR reports:
"Various fires were set in the street and in garbage cans, a police car was spray-painted and vandalized, and there were attempts to set at least one business on fire," according to Portland Police. "Numerous projectiles were thrown at or launched at police and firefighters including rocks, bottles, ball bearings, fireworks, smoke bombs, and road flares."
25 arrests were made. NPR adds that Portland wasn't the only city in the pacific north west marked by violence on May 1:
Police in Olympia, Wash., say they were confronted with a "mob" of masked and violent protesters who threw rocks and used slingshots to target officers. The situation settled down after officers used "crowd dispersal devices" and arrested several people.

August 27
In the wake of the rally in Charlottesville in which white supremacists clashed with counter-protesters, Antifa has upped their game.
On Sunday, members of Antifa “barreled into a protest Sunday afternoon in Berkeley’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park,” writes Kyle Swenson of The Washington Post.
Shortly after, violence began to flare. A pepper-spray-wielding Trump supporter was smacked to the ground with homemade shields. Another was attacked by five black-clad antifa members, each windmilling kicks and punches into a man desperately trying to protect himself. A conservative group leader retreated for safety behind a line of riot police as marchers chucked water bottles, shot off pepper spray and screamed, “Fascist go home!”
The Associated Press reports: “Six people suffered injuries, including two who were hospitalized, and one officer was injured while making an arrest and several others were hit with paint. ... There were 13 arrests on various charges including, assault with a deadly weapon.”
The anti-Marxist rally in Berkeley was organized by Amber Cummings, a transsexual supporter of Trump. Citing the potential for violence, she canceled the event but said she would show up on her own. She was not seen there, though Gibson vowed to come and when he did anarchists set upon him.
They pepper-sprayed him and chased him as he backed away with his hands held in the air. Gibson rushed behind a line of police wearing riot gear, who set off a smoke bomb to drive away the attackers.
Separately, groups of hooded, black-clad protesters attacked at least four other men in or near the park, kicking and punching them until the assaults were stopped by police. The assaults were witnessed by an Associated Press reporter.

Interestingly, AP adds that “Berkeley Police Chief Andrew Greenwood said officers were told not to actively confront the anarchists. He applauded officers' restraint, saying it forestalled greater violence.”

Conclusion

This is by no means an exhaustive list of Antifa-related violence. Milder skirmishes have taken place intermittently between the more large-scale events listed above. As the tactics of Antifa are praised by mainstream progressives, their demonstrations will likely become more aggressive.
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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/20/2018, 4:25 am

happy jack wrote:
I will take you at your word that there has been an increase in white supremacist activity (or at least an increase in the reporting of such activity).

You don't have to.  It's been talked about quite often in this very forum.  You've participated in a lot of them.  My favorite is this one from nearly ten years ago.  I'd say it was prophetic if is wasn't... ya know... based on actual data.  If you'd rather have something more recent, you can try this, this, or this.

Not a lot of Antifa in those assessments, though.  Weird.

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PostSubject: Re: The TIC   9/20/2018, 3:35 pm

happy jack wrote:
At any rate, the nuts and bolts of politics bore me, in general. If you’ve noticed, the bulk of my posting runs along the lines of social issues and attitudes, not politics.

So you didn't vote for Trump because... why exactly? He's done nothing but advance the Conservative social and economic agenda.

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