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 Everyone Needs To Watch This

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/25/2017, 5:59 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:

What point, exactly, are you trying to make?

As I said from the beginning, I want to discuss the events depicted on the video
that I posted.  
I figured the best way to do that is to work through it from start to finish.

The video is divided into segments, and IMHO, it makes it easier to analyze if we
take it one segment at a time.

There will be plenty of time to bring in additional material as we go forward.  It appears that we pretty much agree on what happened on Friday.  

If that's the way you see it as well, than we can go on to the next segment.  

Are you ready to continue?

Quoth the buzzard: "Carrion!"
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/25/2017, 11:36 pm

happy jack wrote:
Quoth the buzzard: "Carrion!"

Allons-y!

Ok. Let's watch the "picnic table scene."  Cantwell says a bunch of stuff
about racism and white people.  

Please make sure that you re-watch the whole conversation.  Some of it involves issues
that we've danced around the edges of but never really addressed during discussions on this forum.

Do you agree with anything that he says here?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/26/2017, 10:08 am

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Quoth the buzzard: "Carrion!"

Allons-y!

Ok. Let's watch the "picnic table scene."  Cantwell says a bunch of stuff
about racism and white people.  

Please make sure that you re-watch the whole conversation.  Some of it involves issues
that we've danced around the edges of but never really addressed during discussions on this forum.

Do you agree with anything that he says here?

No, I don't. He's a major asshole.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/27/2017, 12:54 pm

Memphis theater cancels Gone with the Wind sceenings due to complaints that the Civil War classic is "racially insensitive".


Cowardly fucking idiots.
Have the ridiculous snowflakes who are whining about this considered .... I don't know .... maybe NOT GOING TO SEE THE MOVIE?!?!?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/27/2017, 2:09 pm

A very close friend of mine, who has not a mean bone in his body, is a radio talk show host in a mid-to-major market in Colorado. I learned today that he and his family (wife and two teen-aged children) are getting serious death threats from Antifa because, after vehemently condemning Nazi and white supremacist groups on the air, he had the nerve to suggest that there is violence on both the right and the left.
Fuck Antifa, and fuck anyone who defends them.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/27/2017, 2:10 pm

happy jack wrote:
Memphis theater cancels Gone with the Wind screenings due to complaints that the Civil War classic is "racially insensitive".


Cowardly fucking idiots.
Have the ridiculous snowflakes who are whining about this considered .... I don't know .... maybe NOT GOING TO SEE THE MOVIE?!?!?
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/28/2017, 3:37 pm

Quote :
Whataboutism

Whataboutism is a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world, and subsequently used as a form of propaganda in post-Soviet Russia. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.

Funny how all roads lead to Russia.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/28/2017, 9:01 pm

Heretic wrote:
Quote :
Whataboutism

Whataboutism is a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world, and subsequently used as a form of propaganda in post-Soviet Russia. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.

Funny how all roads lead to Russia.

If that is your attempt at rationalizing the behavior of Antifa, then it's pretty clear what category of person you fall under.
Haven't given up on Russia yet?
I think that even the meatheads at MSNBC have abandoned that tactic.
Good luck with that - hope you find another windmill to tilt at real soon!
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   8/31/2017, 10:47 pm

I'm back.  Sorry for the delay.

OK, the next segment is where the Saturday violence is on display.  I've watched some other videos on You Tube, and this representation is pretty consistent with others that I've seen.  

The Klan Nazis basically acted like an invading force.  The majority of counter protestors appear to be students.  There are some "Antifa" elements as well.  There were a lot of punches thrown.  But the Nazis had far superior numbers.  From what I've seen, perhaps a 10-1 advantage.  They were also well organized and well equipped with helmets, weapons,and shields, while counter protestors mostly just put their bodies in harm's way.

Two episodes really stick out.  At one point, a group of counter protesters, who appeared to be mostly students, were blocking the Nazi advance, and the Nazis just rolled right over them, swinging sticks while hiding behind shields.  They basically kicked the crap out of the counter protesters.

The other episode was when one of the Nazis pulled out a gun and fired a shot into the crowd.  Not cool.  He didn't appear to be in mortal danger.  No reason to be using a firearm.

I don't know if you're aware of the existence of the other videos. I can probably find them again, if you want to take a look at them.  I don't think that I'm embellishing much, but if you haven't seen them then I'll be happy to post them.

If you have already seen them, then I guess I don't understand why you would feel that both sides are equally responsible, especially after the events at the statue on Friday evening.  

Again, let me know if you need me to look for the videos. If all you've seen is that 1 minute video that you posted earlier, then we're not on the same page yet.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/1/2017, 4:15 am

Scorpion wrote:


The Klan Nazis basically acted like an invading force.  The majority of counter protestors appear to be students.  There are some "Antifa" elements as well.  There were a lot of punches thrown.  But the Nazis had far superior numbers.  From what I've seen, perhaps a 10-1 advantage.  They were also well organized and well equipped with helmets, weapons,and shields, while counter protestors mostly just put their bodies in harm's way.

Two episodes really stick out.  At one point, a group of counter protesters, who appeared to be mostly students, were blocking the Nazi advance, and the Nazis just rolled right over them, swinging sticks while hiding behind shields.  They basically kicked the crap out of the counter protesters.


Whether you like what the neo-Nazis were saying or not, they did have the right to say it.
I don't know that there would have been violence had the counter-protesters allowed them to march and chant unchallenged.
Would the Nazis have beat the hell out of each other, perhaps?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/1/2017, 12:48 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Klan Nazis basically acted like an invading force.  The majority of counter protestors appear to be students.  There are some "Antifa" elements as well.  There were a lot of punches thrown.  But the Nazis had far superior numbers.  From what I've seen, perhaps a 10-1 advantage.  They were also well organized and well equipped with helmets, weapons,and shields, while counter protestors mostly just put their bodies in harm's way.

Two episodes really stick out.  At one point, a group of counter protesters, who appeared to be mostly students, were blocking the Nazi advance, and the Nazis just rolled right over them, swinging sticks while hiding behind shields.  They basically kicked the crap out of the counter protesters.


Whether you like what the neo-Nazis were saying or not, they did have the right to say it.
I don't know that there would have been violence had the counter-protesters allowed them to march and chant unchallenged.

We saw what happened when they were allowed to march and chant unchallenged during the campus invasion on Friday night... the kids at the statue
never had a chance once they allowed the howling jackals to surround them.

Giving up ground to these Nazi thugs doesn't seem like a viable option.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/1/2017, 3:37 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Klan Nazis basically acted like an invading force.  The majority of counter protestors appear to be students.  There are some "Antifa" elements as well.  There were a lot of punches thrown.  But the Nazis had far superior numbers.  From what I've seen, perhaps a 10-1 advantage.  They were also well organized and well equipped with helmets, weapons,and shields, while counter protestors mostly just put their bodies in harm's way.

Two episodes really stick out.  At one point, a group of counter protesters, who appeared to be mostly students, were blocking the Nazi advance, and the Nazis just rolled right over them, swinging sticks while hiding behind shields.  They basically kicked the crap out of the counter protesters.


Whether you like what the neo-Nazis were saying or not, they did have the right to say it.
I don't know that there would have been violence had the counter-protesters allowed them to march and chant unchallenged.

We saw what happened when they were allowed to march and chant unchallenged during the campus invasion on Friday night... the kids at the statue
never had a chance once they allowed the howling jackals to surround them.

Giving up ground to these Nazi thugs doesn't seem like a viable option.  

Do you believe that these Nazis had the right to march, chant, and speak, or do you believe that they had no such right?
If you believe that the Nazis did have that right, then it would follow that those who challenged them did so in an attempt to deprive them of that right.
Is it your opinion that depriving someone of his or her right to speech and assembly is the proper and lawful thing to do?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/1/2017, 5:14 pm

happy jack wrote:

Do you believe that these Nazis had the right to march, chant, and speak, or do you believe that they had no such right?

They have the right to assemble peacefully.

The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/2/2017, 8:47 am

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:

Do you believe that these Nazis had the right to march, chant, and speak, or do you believe that they had no such right?

They have the right to assemble peacefully.

The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


All I can make out in the video you posted is a burst of violence without context, in which there is no linear path to the event as it was filmed. Yes, the Nazis were shown swinging their torch sticks, but there is no way to see what provocation, if any, there was prior to that. By the same token, the video I recommended showed only a few seconds of violence by the counter-protesters, without showing any possible provocation. Based upon either video, I am unable to tell if the violence being perpetrated is offense or defense, and I don't think that it is possible to claim with any certainty that only one side was at fault. Both filmmakers edited their respective films to show only what they wanted to be seen, and nothing more.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/2/2017, 2:34 pm

Yeah. Well here's another video... It's the 59 second video halfway down the page, complete with a tweet by Richard Spencer confirming that "they intentionally surrounded and trapped the students and wouldn't let them escape."

https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2017/white-supremacist-mob-carrying-torches-attacks-anti-racist-protesters-charlottesville/

Time to wake up and smell the coffee, Jack.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/5/2017, 6:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/6/2017, 12:28 am

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

How, exactly, is chanting "Black Lives Matter" and holding signs condemning White supremacists in any way a denial of the Nazis' rights?  Are you saying that those students had no right to be there at all?

What the hell are you saying? Please clarify, if you would.

Thanks!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/9/2017, 9:18 am

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

How, exactly, is chanting "Black Lives Matter" and holding signs condemning White supremacists in any way a denial of the Nazis' rights?  Are you saying that those students had no right to be there at all?

What the hell are you saying? Please clarify, if you would.

Thanks!

You are, I admit, absolutely right, in that my portrayal of the anti-Fascists in this case was inaccurate and unfair.
If I am forced to limit my experience with the behavior of anti-Fascists to one particular incident on one particular Friday night, I would be forced to view those in the anti-Fascist movement as Gandhi-like victims of oppression.
And if the only movie I was ever allowed to watch was Carrie, I would be forced to believe that telekinesis is quite real.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/11/2017, 7:42 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

How, exactly, is chanting "Black Lives Matter" and holding signs condemning White supremacists in any way a denial of the Nazis' rights?  Are you saying that those students had no right to be there at all?

What the hell are you saying? Please clarify, if you would.

Thanks!

You are, I admit, absolutely right, in that my portrayal of the anti-Fascists in this case was inaccurate and unfair.
If I am forced to limit my experience with the behavior of anti-Fascists to one particular incident on one particular Friday night, I would be forced to view those in the anti-Fascist movement as Gandhi-like victims of oppression.

What anti-fascist "movement" are you talking about here?  All I see are students at the statue.  I imagine that they do also hold anti-fascist sentiments... I know that I do... Don't you?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/14/2017, 8:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

How, exactly, is chanting "Black Lives Matter" and holding signs condemning White supremacists in any way a denial of the Nazis' rights?  Are you saying that those students had no right to be there at all?

What the hell are you saying? Please clarify, if you would.

Thanks!

You are, I admit, absolutely right, in that my portrayal of the anti-Fascists in this case was inaccurate and unfair.
If I am forced to limit my experience with the behavior of anti-Fascists to one particular incident on one particular Friday night, I would be forced to view those in the anti-Fascist movement as Gandhi-like victims of oppression.

What anti-fascist "movement" are you talking about here?  All I see are students at the statue.  I imagine that they do also hold anti-fascist sentiments... I know that I do... Don't you?

Hello?  Jack... are you still out there?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/15/2017, 8:08 am

Scorpion wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:


The Nazis attacked the students at the statue of Jefferson, who were lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly.  


Lawfully exercising their rights of speech and assembly by attempting to deny the rights of others to exercise their rights to speech and assembly?
OK, I guess, if that's the way you see it.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

How, exactly, is chanting "Black Lives Matter" and holding signs condemning White supremacists in any way a denial of the Nazis' rights?  Are you saying that those students had no right to be there at all?

What the hell are you saying? Please clarify, if you would.

Thanks!

You are, I admit, absolutely right, in that my portrayal of the anti-Fascists in this case was inaccurate and unfair.
If I am forced to limit my experience with the behavior of anti-Fascists to one particular incident on one particular Friday night, I would be forced to view those in the anti-Fascist movement as Gandhi-like victims of oppression.

What anti-fascist "movement" are you talking about here?  All I see are students at the statue.  I imagine that they do also hold anti-fascist sentiments... I know that I do... Don't you?

Hello?  Jack... are you still out there?

Yeah, I'm still here, but I'm not sure what more you expect me to say. I've already told you that the behavior of your anti-Fascists in that little tiny window during one incident on one particular Friday night was exemplary.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/15/2017, 8:32 pm

OK, so that brings us back to where we started... the video.

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:

I don't know that there would have been violence had the counter-protesters allowed them to march and chant unchallenged.

We saw what happened when they were allowed to march and chant unchallenged during the campus invasion on Friday night... the kids at the statue
never had a chance once they allowed the howling jackals to surround them.

Giving up ground to these Nazi thugs doesn't seem like a viable option.  


Do you honestly blame those who you insist on calling "anti-fascists" for "challenging" the Nazis on Saturday after the events of the previous evening?  I'm not sanctioning violence, but the idea that the students should have just allowed those thugs to "march and chant unchallenged" after the Nazi attacks on Friday just seems totally unrealistic to me.

You can't just allow an angry, violent, virulently hateful mob come into your town and take over and do whatever the hell they want.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/16/2017, 5:32 pm

Scorpion wrote:

You can't just allow an angry, violent, virulently hateful mob come into your town and take over and do whatever the hell they want.

You are correct.
Witness Berkeley.
And Portland.
And Berkeley.
And did I mention Berkeley?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/16/2017, 6:28 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:

You can't just allow an angry, violent, virulently hateful mob come into your town and take over and do whatever the hell they want.

You are correct.
Witness Berkeley.
And Portland.
And Berkeley.
And did I mention Berkeley?

This thread is about the video and the events in Charlottesville.  You agreed to discuss the video and the events depicted by it.  

So I'll ask you again...

Do you honestly blame those who you insist on calling "anti-fascists" for "challenging" the Nazis on Saturday after the events of the previous evening?

and you never answered this one, either...

Scorpion wrote:
What anti-fascist "movement" are you talking about here?  All I see are students at the statue.  I imagine that they do also hold anti-fascist sentiments... I know that I do... Don't you?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone Needs To Watch This   9/17/2017, 8:49 am

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:

You can't just allow an angry, violent, virulently hateful mob come into your town and take over and do whatever the hell they want.

You are correct.
Witness Berkeley.
And Portland.
And Berkeley.
And did I mention Berkeley?

This thread is about the video and the events in Charlottesville.  You agreed to discuss the video and the events depicted by it.  

So I'll ask you again...

Do you honestly blame those who you insist on calling "anti-fascists" for "challenging" the Nazis on Saturday after the events of the previous evening?

and you never answered this one, either...

Scorpion wrote:
What anti-fascist "movement" are you talking about here?  All I see are students at the statue.  I imagine that they do also hold anti-fascist sentiments... I know that I do... Don't you?

My apologies for speaking about anti-Fascists who operate outside of your sacred Friday-night-and-only-Friday-night safety window. For some reason, I had the dumb idea that this was a forum.
And I've told you several times - the behavior of your pet anti-Fascists on that sacred Friday night was exemplary. If I knew who they were, I would name any future children and grandchildren after them.
Do I hold anti-Fascist sentiments?
Yes, probably moreso than you do.
I, unlike you, am not the one telling someone what they may or may not speak about.
And I, unlike you, would not deprive someone of their right to free speech.
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