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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Recounts!   11/26/2016, 1:33 pm

Just thought I'd start a thread in order to discuss the recounts.  Wisconsin will begin sometime next week.  Pennsylvania and Michigan will follow soon.  

Personally. I think it's a great idea. There's a lot of people who will be reassured if it's proven that the election wasn't hacked.  If it's proven that it was hacked, then perhaps the wrong candidate was elected...

In any case, let's recount the votes.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/26/2016, 4:53 pm

I couldn't agree more. Do I think it will overturn the result? Probably not,but it certainly won't surprise me if some irregularities are found. In any event,I don't want to spend the next 4 years wondering if there was some monkey business.

Meanwhile,the last person on earth who should be complaining is the blabbermouth that insisted the elections were going to be rigged is already whining. POTUS Elect Know Nothing has declared it a scam,but as he liked to rant all thru the campaign "What do you (we) have to lose"?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/27/2016, 4:25 am

Hang dem chads!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/27/2016, 3:16 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
I couldn't agree more. Do I think it will overturn the result? Probably not,but it certainly won't surprise me if some irregularities are found. In any event,I don't want to spend the next 4 years wondering if there was some monkey business.

Meanwhile,the last person on earth who should be complaining is the blabbermouth that insisted the elections were going to be rigged is already whining. POTUS Elect Know Nothing has declared it a scam,but as he liked to rant all thru the campaign "What do you (we) have to lose"?



That's a pretty slick move you pulled off there, Artie.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/27/2016, 3:23 pm

http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/flashback-clinton-said-not-accepting-election-results-was-horrifying-video/

During the final debate between Clinton and Donald Trump last month in Las Vegas, Fox News Channel’s Chris Wallace asked Trump if he would honor the results of the election even if he lost.
“I will look at it at the time. I’m not looking at it now. What I’ve seen is so bad,” Trump responded.
Wallace pressed the question further, and Trump replied, “What I’m saying is I will tell you at the time.”
“I’ll keep you in suspense,” Trump said.
Clinton, apparently taken aback by Trump’s response to the matter, hit back “That’s horrifying.”
She went on to say, “That’s not the way our democracy works. We’ve been around 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections and we’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. President Obama said the other day that when you’re whining before the game is even finished it just shows you’re not even up to doing the job. “
She added, “And let’s be clear about what he’s saying and what he means. He’s denigrating—he’s talking down our democracy. I for one am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our major two parties would take that kind of position.”




Just sayin'.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/27/2016, 10:24 pm

happy jack wrote:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/26/flashback-clinton-said-not-accepting-election-results-was-horrifying-video/

During the final debate between Clinton and Donald Trump last month in Las Vegas, Fox News Channel’s Chris Wallace asked Trump if he would honor the results of the election even if he lost.
“I will look at it at the time. I’m not looking at it now. What I’ve seen is so bad,” Trump responded.
Wallace pressed the question further, and Trump replied, “What I’m saying is I will tell you at the time.”
“I’ll keep you in suspense,” Trump said.
Clinton, apparently taken aback by Trump’s response to the matter, hit back “That’s horrifying.”
She went on to say, “That’s not the way our democracy works. We’ve been around 240 years. We’ve had free and fair elections and we’ve accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election. President Obama said the other day that when you’re whining before the game is even finished it just shows you’re not even up to doing the job. “
She added, “And let’s be clear about what he’s saying and what he means. He’s denigrating—he’s talking down our democracy. I for one am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our major two parties would take that kind of position.”

Just sayin'.
Pay attention to Bernie Sanders,dumbass....You might learn something Rolling Eyes
Quote :
“The Democrats, Martha, are not doing the recount,” Sanders told ABC correspondent Martha Raddatz. “I trust that you know that was initiated by the Green Party, who has every right in the world to do it.”

But guess who just opened the door a whole lot wider?
Quote :
Donald J. Trump
✔️
@realDonaldTrump
Quote :

In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally
2:30 PM - 27 Nov 2016
This is terrifying on a number of levels. Not only does it further demonstrate that the soon-to-be leader of the free world has a skin as thin as tissue paper, but it highlights the fact that Trump will as president continue to trade in insane conspiracy theories just as he did as a candidate and as a reality show star before that. There is exactly no evidence that "millions of people voted illegally" in the election. None. Zilch. Zero. But Trump doesn't care.

We're screwed.
Update: This.
   Nate Cohn
 
Quote :
✔️
   @Nate_Cohn

   Hard to argue against an audit/recount if the president-elect asserts, without any evidence, that were millions of illegal votes
   2:46 PM - 27 Nov 2016 · Washington, DC
http://www.motherjones.com/contributor/2016/11/donald-trump-claims-millions-people-voted-illegally-they-didnt

You were saying?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 4:22 am

Artie60438 wrote:

Pay attention to Bernie Sanders,dumbass....You might learn something Rolling Eyes
Quote :
“The Democrats, Martha, are not doing the recount,” Sanders told ABC correspondent Martha Raddatz. “I trust that you know that was initiated by the Green Party, who has every right in the world to do it.”

Artie60438 wrote:
   
You were saying?



I was saying ….

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us/politics/clinton-camp-will-join-push-for-wisconsin-ballot-recount.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — Nearly three weeks after Election Day, Hillary Clinton’s campaign said on Saturday that it would participate in a recount process in Wisconsin incited by a third-party candidate and would join any potential recounts in two other closely contested states, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

………

The Clinton campaign had assailed Mr. Trump during the election for refusing to say he would abide by the results if he lost.

…. dumbass.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 12:41 pm

Well, our President Elect seems to believe there was widespread and massive voter fraud, which I assume means he is for the recount as well.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 1:12 pm

That said, recounts are (no surprise) a good idea in terms of national security.  As usual, the GOP is on the wrong side of this. Here's Schneier's take:

Hacking and the 2016 Presidential Election

Quote :
Accountability is a major problem for U.S. elections. The candidates are the ones required to petition for recounts, and we throw the matter into the courts when we can't figure it out. This all happens after an election, and because the battle lines have already been drawn, the process is intensely political. Unlike many other countries, we don't have an independent body empowered to investigate these matters. There is no government agency empowered to verify these researchers' claims, even if it would be merely to reassure voters that the election count was accurate.

Instead, we have a patchwork of voting systems: different rules, different machines, different standards. I've seen arguments that there is security in this setup ­ an attacker can't broadly attack the entire country ­ but the downsides of this system are much more critical. National standards would significantly improve our voting process.

. . .

But we only have two years until the next national elections, and it's time to start fixing things if we don't want to be wondering the same things about hackers in 2018. The risks are real: Electronic voting machines that don't use a paper ballot are vulnerable to hacking.

J. Alex Halderman himself explains what the media got wrong when he was mentioned by NYMag and CNN.  Recounts serve as a deterrent to hacking:

Quote :
You may have read at NYMag that I’ve been in discussions with the Clinton campaign about whether it might wish to seek recounts in critical states. That article, which includes somebody else’s description of my views, incorrectly describes the reasons manually checking ballots is an essential security safeguard (and includes some incorrect numbers, to boot). Let me set the record straight about what I and other leading election security experts have actually been saying to the campaign and everyone else who’s willing to listen.

. . .

America’s voting machines have serious cybersecurity problems. That isn’t news. It’s been documented beyond any doubt over the last decade in numerous peer-reviewed papers and state-sponsored studies by me and by other computer security experts. We’ve been pointing out for years that voting machines are computers, and they have reprogrammable software, so if attackers can modify that software by infecting the machines with malware, they can cause the machines to give any answer whatsoever. I’ve demonstrated this in the laboratory with real voting machines — in just a few seconds, anyone can install vote-stealing malware on those machines that silently alters the electronic records of every vote.

. . .

I know I may sound like a Luddite for saying so, but most election security experts are with me on this: paper ballots are the best available technology for casting votes. We use two main kinds of paper systems in different parts of the U.S. Either voters fill out a ballot paper that gets scanned into a computer for counting (optical scan voting), or they vote on a computer that counts the vote and prints a record on a piece of paper (called a voter-verifiable paper audit trail). Either way, the paper creates a record of the vote that can’t be later modified by any bugs, misconfiguration, or malicious software that might have infected the machines.

After the election, human beings can examine the paper to make sure the results from the voting machines accurately determined who won. Just as you want the brakes in your car to keep working even if the car’s computer goes haywire, accurate vote counts must remain available even if the machines are malfunctioning or attacked. In both cases, common sense tells us we need some kind of physical backup system. I and other election security experts have been advocating for paper ballots for years, and today, about 70% of American voters live in jurisdictions that keep a paper record of every vote.

. . .

Examining the physical evidence in these states — even if it finds nothing amiss — will help allay doubt and give voters justified confidence that the results are accurate. It will also set a precedent for routinely examining paper ballots, which will provide an important deterrent against cyberattacks on future elections. Recounting the ballots now can only lead to strengthened electoral integrity. . .
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 1:25 pm

Heretic wrote:
Well, our President Elect seems to believe there was widespread and massive voter fraud, which I assume means he is for the recount as well.
Potus Elect grifter learned of this theory via Alex Jones Rolling Eyes
Infowars Pushed Undocumented Voters Myth Trump Is Embracing
Then there's this..
Trump's baseless assertions of voter fraud called 'stunning'  Without putting forth any evidence, the president-elect says he actually won the popular vote.
Quote :
David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research and a former senior trial attorney in the Voting Section of the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division, agreed that widespread fraud was unlikely.

Quote :
“We know historically that this almost never happens,” he said. “You’re more likely to get eaten by a shark that simultaneously gets hit by lightning than to find a noncitizen voting.
One thing is for sure....Losing the popular vote is going to be a sore spot for the next 4 yrs.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 10:11 pm

For the record, I'm all in favor of a recount.
But if y'all hear any chuckling as liberals chase their tails, it's probably just me.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 10:13 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
   
One thing is for sure....Losing the popular vote is going to be a sore spot for the next 4 yrs.

A sore spot for whom?
And why?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 10:26 pm

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
One thing is for sure....Losing the popular vote is going to be a sore spot for the next 4 yrs.
[b]A sore spot for whom?
And why?
If you're too stupid to figure it out,I can't help you. Now take a hike,troll Sleep
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 10:39 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
One thing is for sure....Losing the popular vote is going to be a sore spot for the next 4 yrs.
A sore spot for whom?
And why?

If you're too stupid to figure it out,I can't help you. Now take a hike,troll Sleep


If you can't even manage to articulate your own opinion, I don't think anyone can help you.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/28/2016, 11:54 pm

Here's 538's take:

Quote :
An audit very probably won’t detect a conspiracy, but it will reveal information about our voting systems. FiveThirtyEight and most other American news organizations are founded on the premise that more information is better, even if it risks being misinterpreted. I’ve never questioned that premise more than I have over the course of this election. But over the next four years, we’re all going to have to get used to an environment in which nuggets of insight come buried in mounds of misinformation. An audit is as good a place as any to start.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   11/29/2016, 12:19 am

That said, recounts are good security and should be a part of our election apparatus. Recounts as being done are a different story. Emptywheel has two posts explaining of some of the specific problems with Stein's forcing:

The Self Serving Jill Stein Recount Scam

Quote :
Stein’s effort could easily place Wisconsin, in light of the December 13 deadline, of missing the deadline and disenfranchising all voters in Wisconsin. Yes, there are potential repercussions from actions like Stein is taking, especially when there is no known basis or grounds whatsoever evidentiary wise to support them. And that is just Wisconsin. Michigan and Pennsylvania are in even bigger jeopardy thanks to the self serving hubris of Jill Stein, should she actually continue on to file in those states as promised, without any rational basis for challenging the vote therein.

and more recent:

The Stein Recount Needle and the Damage Done

The bit about deadlines is important, especially considering Stein is now suing Wisconsin to force a hand recount.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   12/1/2016, 6:38 pm

The American people need to know that the election wasn't hacked.  It's as simple as that. I don't think there's any chance that Wisconsin or any other state will miss the deadline and then not have its electoral votes count.  The only scenario where I could see that happening is if solid evidence of hacking is uncovered.  In that case... all bets are off, and that's the way it should be if the election was actually hacked, don't you think?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   12/2/2016, 11:38 am

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/first-day-of-wisconsin-recount-nets-hillary-one-vote/

First Day Of Wisconsin Recount Nets Hillary One Vote

The first day of Wisconsin’s presidential recount narrowed the gap between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President-elect Donald Trump by precisely one vote.
Trump defeated Clinton in Wisconsin’s initial tally by about one percent, or just over 22,000 votes. Nevertheless, Green Party candidate Jill Stein (who finished a very distant fourth) is demanding a full recount after suggesting fraud or technological glitches may have swayed the results. In response to Stein’s demand, Wisconsin began recounting all its ballots Thursday.
But the first results to emerge suggest the final tally will be rather close to the original one. Only Menominee County, home to the Menominee Indian Reservation, fully reported its recounted results on the first day. It found 17 extra votes for Stein and 12 for Libertarian Gary Johnson, while removing two votes from Trump and one from Clinton.
When putting all the results together, that means the first day of the recount narrowed the gap between Clinton and Trump by just a single vote.




You go, girl!!!!
Don't give up!!!!
You are Woman - we hear you roar!!!!
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   12/2/2016, 11:42 am

I looked at these recounts as a way to restore faith in the electoral system. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen.
As an example,last night Pres Elect Narcissist who lost the popular vote by 2.5 million votes and counting,organized a rally where he claimed he won in a landslide. affraid I expect that he will continue to re-litigate the election for months,if not years,constantly lying to his brain dead supporters. I wonder if they'll ever actually wake up and figure out they've been suckered.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   12/2/2016, 11:47 am

Artie60438 wrote:
 I  expect that he will continue to re-litigate the election for months,if not years,  ....



Who is re-litigating the election?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Recounts!   12/7/2016, 12:11 pm

http://ntknetwork.com/disgruntled-democrats-want-a-constitutional-convention-to-leave-the-union/

Disgruntled Democrats Want A Constitutional Convention To Leave The Union
Claim They Are Three States Away


December 6, 2016

On Tuesday, disgruntled Democrats held a forum to discuss the possibility of replacing the Electoral College.
Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) conceded that Democrats could not get rid of the Electoral College due to the way the United States Constitution is written.
“I don’t think we can sustain our American democracy by having the majority ruled by the minority. And so the question is how to fix this since the Constitution is written in such a way that it’s almost impossible to amend,” Lofgren said.
Lofgren went on to say she is open to a Constitutional Convention, “We are three states away from calling for a Constitutional Convention. It’s something I’ve always been opposed to, …. But I’ll say because, for the second time in sixteen years, people the American voters elected did not become president. Rational people, not the fringe, are now talking about whether states could be separated from the U.S., whether we should have a Constitutional Convention. And I think as time goes on that is apt to become more the case unless we here can figure an answer to preventing the majority from being ruled by the minority.




Adieu.
Sayonara.
Auf wiedersehen.
Adios
, motherfuckers.
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