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 How 'bout that Obamacare?

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/19/2014, 11:28 pm

The Obamacare Debate Was One of the Most Transparent in Recent Memory
Quote :
Earlier this year, the opponents of the Affordable Care Act spun a complete revision of the law’s legislative history from a video in which MIT professor, and Obamacare architect, Jonathan Gruber mistakenly said citizens in states that don’t set up their own exchanges won’t be eligible for health insurance subsidies.

These comments became the Rosetta Stone of the Halbig-Truther movement, whose adherents hold that Congress intentionally designed the ACA subsidy scheme to strong-arm states into participating in the takeover of the American health system. In their retellings, Gruber is either the only liberal who understands the nature of the law Congress passed, or the weak link in a vast conspiracy to dupe the pubic about this and other aspects of Obamacare.

Now conservatives have unearthed more footage of Gruber, which supports the latter portrayal.

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure CBO did not score the mandate as taxes,” said Gruber. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies, ok? So it was written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, you get a law which said healthy people are going to pay in, it made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money, it would not have passed. Ok? … [L]ack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically, that was really, really critical to getting this thing to pass.”

The right is doing an incredible job shorehorning these comments into ongoing arguments about subsidies and other conservative points of attack against Obamacare. When a prominent ACA supporter calls American voters stupid, that part’s easy. The clip likewise surfaced against the backdrop of a Supreme Court case that threatens to gut the law, which explains why the right has sharpened its obsession with Gruber. Congressional hearings are even in the offing.

But there are two things that cut against the notion that this is a significant discovery, rather than the impolitic but ultimately unnewsworthy confessions of a single technocrat. Taken together they vindicate the political process that gave rise to the ACA, relative to the biggest legislative bargains in recent memory.

First, Gruber’s actually overstating the degree to which the ACA needed to be finessed in order to pass. It’s true that the bill’s authors took steps to maximize its public appeal and minimize its vulnerabilities. Everyone writing significant legislation does this. The question is always how far you go—what lines are you willing to cross?

Congress did, as Gruber says, construct the mandate as a penalty rather than a tax, to make the bill passable. (Since then the Supreme Court has done us all a favor by reminding us this is a distinction without a difference.) Likewise, the bill's core benefits only began kicking in this year, in large part because the authors wanted to keep the 10 year cost of the bill under $1 trillion to prevent sticker shock. Gruber didn’t mention that part.

But his suggestion that the key cost-sharing tradeoffs weren’t widely discussed just isn’t true. The idea that healthy people as well as sick people needed to participate in the system was central to the moral argument for the mandate, and figured heavily in the substantive debate over how much more insurers should be able to charge the elderly than the young. The risk-rating tussle is illustrative, because it was the rule, rather than the exception to the long legislative tug-of-war over the broader ACA. Conservatives have always said the health care law wasn’t debated, that it was rammed through, nobody read it, etc, etc. But it actually stands out for how much it was debated, and, for the most part, how transparent that debate was. Which in turn explains how difficult it was to pass.

In contrast, nearly everyone who’s attacking Gruber as if he were a White House political employee or a Democratic senator is simultaneously trying to require the Congressional Budget Office to say that tax cuts pay for themselves. The people who brought you the phony arithmetic of the Bush tax cuts and Medicare Part D and the self-financing Iraq war are upset about the ACA, which is genuinely fiscally sound.

By any reasonable standard, ACA respected budgetary constraints much better than most other laws. That the authors took pains to meet concrete budgetary goals actually underscores the point that they took CBO, and budgetary questions in general, very seriously. If they didn’t take CBO seriously, they could’ve just ignored it, or fired the messenger. That’s what the George W. Bush administration threatened to do when the chief Medicare actuary prepared to say the Part D drug benefit would cost more than the White House was letting on.

Procedural hypocrisy is a big part of politics, so it’s not like there’s anything unexpected about Republicans piling on Gruber—who's a public figure in his own right, and accountable for his statements. But the urge is infecting people who should know better. Conservative columnist Tim Carney, who’s no fan of the Medicare drug benefit or the Iraq war (but who likes those Bush tax cuts) tweets that “Obamacare stands out as a law built on a foundation of lies,” as if those other bills just didn’t pass. If you’re using Gruber’s observations and analysis as a stand in for the historical record, you’ll reach conclusions about ACA specifically, and the legislative process in general, that are completely backward
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/20/2014, 6:51 am

Artie60438 wrote:
   [L]ack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically, that was really, really critical to getting this thing to pass.”


'Fess up, girl.
The fact that he's throwing your own stupidity in your face is what really wads up your panties, isn't it?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/20/2014, 7:23 am

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   [L]ack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically, that was really, really critical to getting this thing to pass.”


[b]'Fess up, girl.
The fact that he's throwing your own stupidity in your face is what really wads up your panties, isn't it?
The only ones with their panties in a knot are right-wing stooges like yourself. Obamacare is doing just fine.

Now it's on to immigration reform. Another punch to the gut of you wing-nut wackos and one that will insure the Latino vote for Dems for years to come. cheers cheers cheers
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/20/2014, 3:52 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
   

Now it's on to immigration reform. Another punch to the gut of you wing-nut wackos and one that will insure the Latino vote for Dems for years to come. cheers cheers cheers



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/03/28/remarks-president-univision-town-hall

"America is a nation of laws, which means I, as the President, am obligated to enforce the law. I don't have a choice about that. That's part of my job. But I can advocate for changes in the law so that we have a country that is both respectful of the law but also continues to be a great nation of immigrants."


………


"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed -- and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.
There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President."



- Barack Hussein Obama
- March 28, 2011




Kudos, Artie, for what I believe is the only honest statement I've ever seen from you - that King Barry's so-called immigration reform is all about the votes, and nothing more.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/21/2014, 5:05 pm

happy jack wrote:
Kudos, Artie, for what I believe is the only honest statement I've ever seen from you - that King Barry's so-called immigration reform is all about the votes, and nothing more.[/b]
Wrong again troll,It's about doing the job that the wingnut House won't. Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.The fact that President Obama's picture will hang for years on the walls of millions of Latinos is just a plus.

Suck on it righties!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/21/2014, 6:02 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.





Artie60438 wrote:
   
The fact that President Obama's picture will hang for years on the walls of millions of Latinos ….

Yeah, right in between the pictures of Christ and Elvis on velvet.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/21/2014, 8:58 pm

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

[b]Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.
Really dumbass? Read the title of this thread.

Besides that....

54 consecutive months of private sector job growth started during those months. Btw,that is the longest period of private sector job creation in American history.

Unemployment has dropped from 10.1% in October of 2009 to 5.9% and projected to reach 5.4% by summer of 2015.

Now read the following and weep.....

1) A $20 billion increase for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly known as Food Stamps.
2) A $1 billion in funding for the Community Services Block Grant (CSBG) that is intended to revitalize low-income communities via "Job training and placement assistance", "Financial literacy programs", et al, to helping families become self-sufficient.
3) A $2 billion in new Neighborhood Stabilization Funds that will allow ailing neighborhoods be kept maintained.
4) A $1.5 billion in Homelessness Prevention Funds to keep people in their homes and prevent homelessness.
5) A $5 billion increase for the Weatherization Assistance Program to help low income families save on their residential energy expenditures by making their homes more energy efficient.
6) A $4 Billion program, The Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010, "authorizes funding for federal school meal and child nutrition programs and increases access to healthy food for low-income children."
7) As part of the HCR bill, subsidies will be available to the uninsured and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level($14,404 for individuals and $29,326 for a family of four).
Cool Estabilished Open Doors to end the 640,000 men, women and children who are homeless in America by 2020.
9) Increased the amount of federal Pell Grant awards so that funds are available to those with less access to have opportunity.
10) Provided $510 Million for the rehabilitation of Native American housing.
11) Expanded eligibility for Medicaid to all individuals under age 65 with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($14,400 per year for an individual).
12) Providing assistance to low-income workers through the Earned Income Tax Credit giving millions of working families the break they need.
13) Education being the way out of Poverty, kicked off the "Race to the Top", a $4.3 billion program, that rewards via grants to States that meet a few key benchmarks for reform, and states that outperform the rest.
On Health Care Reform:

1) Coverage can’t be denied to children with pre-existing conditions.
2) Adults up to age 26 can stay on their parents’ health plans.
3) Free preventive care.
4) Rescinding coverage is now illegal.
5) Eliminating lifetime limits on insurance coverage.
6) Restricting annual limits on insurance coverage.
7) More options to appeal coverage decisions.
Cool $5 billion in immediate federal support to affordable Coverage for the Uninsured with Pre-existing Conditions.
9) $10 billion investment in Community Health Centers.
10) Create immediate access to re-insurance for employer health plans providing coverage for early retirees.
11) Made an $80 billion dealwith the pharmaceutical industry to contribute to cut prescription drug costs for the nation’s seniors reduce the size of the "donut hole" in the Medicare (Part D) Drug Benefit.
12) Provides a $250 rebate to 750,000 Medicare Beneficiaries who reach the Part D coverage gap in 2010. As of March 22, 2011, 3.8 million beneficiaries had received a $250 check to close the coverage gap, according to an HHS report.
13) Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering up to 35% of employee premiums effective 2011 and a 50% tax credit effective 2013.
14) Creates a state option to provide Medicaid coverage to childless adults with incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty level. By 2014, States are required to provide this coverage.
15) Provides a 10% Medicare bonus payment for primary care services and also a 10% Medicare bonus payment to general surgeons practicing in health professional shortage areas.
16) Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) requires that insurance companies spend at least 80 to 85 percent of the proportion of the premium dollars on clinical services. As an example, WellPoint's Anthem Blue Cross unit in California has reduced its proposed rate increase.
On Jobs and the Economy:

1) The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) has worked. The Economy Has Been Growing - take a look at the graph of GDP growth between 2007 thru 2010.
2) The $787 billion economic stimulus package has created or saved nearly 2 million jobs slowing the bleeding
3) Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 that extended Unemployment benefits up to 20 weeks and more.
4) Provided $14.7 billion in small business loans increasing minority access to capital.
5) The $26 billion aid to states package preventing large-scale layoffs of teachers and public employees.
6) As of March 31, 2011, created 1.8 million Private sector jobs since Jan 2010.
7) US auto industry rescue plan saved at least 1 million jobs
Cool Helpedmake the Auto Industry start making huge profits again with Ford sales up 19% over last year. GM up 11%. Chrysler up a whopping 31%.
9) Jobs for Main Street Act (2010)injected $27.5 Billion for Highways, $8.4 Billion for Transit into the country’s transportation system to create jobs and spur economic activity.
10) A $33 Billion Jobs Packagethat will allow Small businesses to get $5,000 tax credit for new hires.
11) A $26 billion State Aid Package Jobs Bill saving 300,000 teachers and public workers jobs from unemployment.
12) As part of the 2010 tax extension, Unemployment Insurance was extended to 7 million Americans who would have been without income.
On Banking and Financial Reform

1) Signed a sweeping bank-reform bill (the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act)into law
2) Managed the $700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that Banks have repaid more than 100% of TARP funds ($251 of the $245 banks owed) as of March 2011 exceeding the original investment by $6 billion.
3) Cuts Salaries of 65 Bailout Executives
4) Closed offshore tax safe havens, tax credit loopholes on companies that use the tax laws to ship American Jobs oversees. HR 4213.
5) Signed into law the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act to fight fraud in the use of TARP and recovery funds, and to increase accountability for corporate and mortgage frauds.
6) Signed the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure Act
On Education

1) Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010 that increased the amount of federal Pell Grant awards and enabled the stripping of banks privileges as intermediaries for student loan servicing saving the US government about $68 billion dollars over 11 years.
2) Created the Race to the Top Fund, a $4.35 billion program to reward States that submit the best proposals for change.
3) As part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, funded over$100 Billion for reforms to strengthen Elementary and Secondary education, early learning programs, college affordability and improve access to higher education, and to close the achievement gap.
On Energy

1) Implemented renewable fuels mandate of 36 billion gallons by 2022, four times what we currently consume.
2) Automakers will be required to meet a fleet-wide average of New Gas Mileage Standards at 35.5 MPH by 2016.
3) A $60 billion investment in renewable and clean energy.
4) developed a Biofuels Roadmap to determine the next steps in growing an advanced biofuels economy to meet the goal to use at least 36 billion gallons of bio-based transportation fuels by 2022 helping create more green energy jobs.
5) established EPA regulations which require large U.S. ships to cut soot emissions by 85 percent.
6) pledged via the Blueprint for a Secure Energy Future that in a decade from now to cut our oil dependency by one-third, and put America's energy future by producing more oil at home and reducing our dependence on oil by leveraging cleaner, alternative fuels and greater efficiency.
On Housing

1) $275 billion dollar housing plan - $75 billion dollars to prevent at-risk mortgage debtors already fallen victim to foreclosures and $200 billion to bring about confidence to offer affordable mortgages and to stability the housing market.
2) Established "Opening Doors" to end the homelessness of 640,000 men, women, and children in the United States in 10 years.
3) Provided $510 Million for the rehabilitation of Native American housing.
4) Provided $2 billion for Neighborhood Stabilization Program to rehab, resell, or demolish in order to stabilize neighborhoods.
5) Provided $5 billion for Weatherization Assistance Program for low income families to weatherize 1 million homes per year for the next decade.
6) Provided grants to encourage states and localities to take the first steps in implementing new building codes that prioritize energy efficiency.
On Medicaid/Medicare/Social Security

1) giving $250 economic stimulus check to 55 million Social Security and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) recipients in 2009.
2) Cutting prescription drug costs for Medicare recipients by 50% and began eliminating the plan’s gap (“donut hole”) in coverage.
3) Passing as part of H.R.3962 (Preservation of Access to Care for Medicare Beneficiaries and Pension Relief Act of 2010) a $6.4 billion measurereversing a 21 percent cut in physician payments that would have started a flood of rejections by some doctors of seniors covered by Medicare.
4) Expanded eligibility for Medicaid to all individuals under age 65 with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($14,400 per year for an individual).
5) Committed to ensuring that Social Security Budget Will Not Be Cut nor would change the retirement age.
On Military Veterans and Families

1) A $112.8 billion VA budget, an increase of 15.5 percent over 2009, the largest percentage increase for VA requested by a president in more than 30 years.
2) Implemented a strategic planto increase the hiring of Veterans and Military spouses throughout the Federal civil service.
3) Provided for the expenses of families of to be at Dover AFB when fallen soldiers arrive.
4) Passed the Veterans' Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2009 increasing the rates of compensation for veterans with service-connected disabilities and the rates of dependency and indemnity compensation for the survivors of certain disabled veterans.
5) Declared the end of the war in Iraqi bringing back nearly 100,000 U.S. troops home to their families.
6) Donated 250K of Nobel prize money to Fisher House, a group that helps provide housing for families of patients receiving medical care at military and Veterans Affairs medical centers
7) Ended media blackout on war casualties; giving access to the return home of a dead US soldier for the first time since an 18-year ban on coverage was lifted.
Cool Create a 'Green Vet Initiative' to promote environmental jobs for veterans
9) Signed into law the 2009 Military Spouses Residency Relief Act, that will allow military spouses to claim residency in the same state as their sponsor and retain that residency as long as the service member is in the military, in the process avoiding the states where they currently reside from taxing their earned income.
10) Signed the Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2010


On LBGTQ issues no matter this diarythinks it is overselling of Obama's LGBT Accomplishments

1) Extended benefitsto same-sex partners of federal employees
2) Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act
3) Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights.
4) Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)
5) Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act and while more funding is needed per the 2012 proposed budget, an increase of $80 million to domestic and global HIV/AIDS programs committed
6) Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover Gay employees taking unpaid leave to care for their children of same-sex partners
7) Lifted the HIV Entry Ban.
Cool Implemented HUD Policies that Would Ban Discrimination Based On Gender Identity
9) Appointed the first ever transgender DNC member
10) Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)
11) Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept LGBT relationships from being counted
12) Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims
13) Repealedthe Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) Discriminatory law.
14) Declared DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) unconstitutional and stopped Defending In Court
15) Endorsed a U.N. declaration calling for the worldwide decriminalization of gays and lesbians around the world in an efforts to make it a worldwide policy.
Tax deal extending Bush's tax cut for two years which often gets criticized will do the following:

Damn it, the TAX DEAL is not PERMANENT

1) Keep $3,000 in tax savingsannually
2) Unemployment Benefit for 7,000,000 Americans worth $56 Billion.
3) $2,500 in tax savings to help pay for college tuition and other expenses
4) A $2,000 payroll tax savings to someone making $100,000 or a $1,000 payroll tax savings at a 2% employee-side payroll tax cut for over 155 million workers
5) Child tax credit of $1,000 per child with the $3,000 maximum credit threshold.
6) Earned Income Tax Credit that will give on an average $600 in additional assistance to families with 3 or more children
7) A 65 percent tax credit to help cover the cost of COBRA for those who lost their jobs in the recession
Cool forecast to creating approximately 1.6 million jobs increasing the GDP for 2011
9) extended the credit for adoption-related expenses that reduces families tax bill up to $13,170 in 2011 through 2012 with a maximum of $12,170 in credit.
Other Notables

1) signed the Health Package For 9/11 Responders bill that puts $4.3 billion into a fund to assist folks that are suffering from problems caused by breathed-in dust and debris during the 9/11 clean up.
2) signed into law a sweeping Food Safety Act bill that contains 18 major changes to food safety laws.
3) made an excellent choice selecting a new Chief of Staff, William Daley, who Eric London has made a super case for why it was a smart choice.
4) made a $78 billion spending cut to the U.S. military and defense department budget, including reducing the size of the Army and Marine Corps.
5) signed in to law the START Treaty with Russia, a sweeping new arms reduction pact that will reduce the stockpile nuclear weapons in both countries adding new verification plan.
6) The passage of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act enabling the rights of workers to sue employers over wage discrimination claims.
7) The expansion of SCHIP health-care program for children worth $33 Billion.
Cool The declaration of two million more acres of wilderness in one of the most omnibus Public Lands bill.
9) Government Transparency as noted by Common Cause, Democracy 21, League of Women Voters and U.S. PIRG-- "The cumulative effect of the Administration's actions has been to adopt the strongest and most comprehensive lobbying, ethics and transparency rules and policies ever established by an Administration to govern its own activities". You can read full report in all of the seven areas the report is graded.
10) signed the Tribal Law and Order Act -- an important step to help the Federal Government better address the unique public safety challenges that confront tribal communities.

Not bad considering he had almost half of congress trying to block everything he proposed.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/22/2014, 10:40 am

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Really dumbass? Read the title of this thread.





When I wrote, “Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished”, I  was talking about immigration. I assumed you would have realized that, since you were the one who initially deviated from the title of the thread by bringing up the topic of immigration – dumbass.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/22/2014, 12:42 pm

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Really dumbass? Read the title of this thread.





[b]When I wrote, “Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished”, I  was talking about immigration. I assumed you would have realized that, since you were the one who initially deviated from the title of the thread by bringing up the topic of immigration – dumbass.
I'm not a mind reader,moron.  I know you wingnuts are upset but Obama has now pretty much fucked you on the issue. Very Happy  Either Obama gets credit for the reform or Repubs get blamed for obstruction.
Check Mate! cheers
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/22/2014, 12:57 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Really dumbass? Read the title of this thread.





When I wrote, “Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished”, I  was talking about immigration. I assumed you would have realized that, since you were the one who initially deviated from the title of the thread by bringing up the topic of immigration – dumbass.

I'm not a mind reader,moron.




When you yourself derail a thread by introducing a new topic, you really should pay attention to the topic you have introduced - dumbass.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/22/2014, 9:05 pm

happy jack wrote:

When you yourself derail a thread by introducing a new topic, you really should pay attention to the topic you have introduced - dumbass.[/b]
It is impossible to derail a thread when the only other person (you) replying is a troll. Sleep
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/23/2014, 11:01 am

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:

When you yourself derail a thread by introducing a new topic, you really should pay attention to the topic you have introduced - dumbass.[/b]
It is impossible to derail a thread when the only other person (you) replying is a troll. Sleep



Lose an argument, refuse to admit it, then hide behind the Boredom Card.
You're much too predictable, you know.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/23/2014, 4:02 pm

happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Seriously?  Do you happen to remember what was going on during the first 2 years of Obama's tenure? The idea that it was a real opportunity to bring an immigration reform bill to the floor is ludicrous.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/23/2014, 6:44 pm

Did The Democrats Ever Really Have 60 Votes In The Senate, And For How Long?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/23/2014, 7:20 pm

edge540 wrote:
Did The Democrats Ever Really Have 60 Votes In The Senate, And For How Long?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/

Thanks for the link. I was looking for that!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/24/2014, 9:40 am

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Seriously?  Do you happen to remember what was going on during the first 2 years of Obama's tenure? The idea that it was a real opportunity to bring an immigration reform bill to the floor is ludicrous.



So, to the extent there was a filibuster proof majority in the Senate it lasted during two brief periods which lasted for a total of just over five months when counted altogether (and Congress was in its traditional summer recess for most of the July-August 2009 time frame).



If immigration reform is so goddamned important that He now had to resort to executive action against the will of the people, there should have been no reason for Him to not have used those 5 months productively and gotten immigration reform passed properly through a filibuster-proof congress. How fucking long does it take 60 Democrats to raise their hands and say, “Aye”? (I realize we’re talking about Democrats, and even that minor task might tend to confuse them. But really …. 5 months and nothing?) Or did He wait simply to give His bad self the opportunity to grandstand on the issue, as He just did?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/24/2014, 1:34 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/11/23/snl-skit-suggests-obamas-immigration-executive-action-is-unconstitutional/

SNL skit suggests Obama’s immigration executive action is unconstitutional


Last night, Saturday Night Live's "cold open" mocked President Obama'snew executive action shielding 4 million illegal immigrants from the threat of immediate deportation. To the tune of a "Schoolhouse Rock!" song, Kenan Thompson dresses up as a "Bill" and explains how Congress passes one. Until Jay Pharoah, playing Obama, pushes Thompson down the Capitol steps.
"There's actually an even easier way to get things done around here, and it's called an executive order," Obama (Pharoah) says. Bobby Moynihan shows up dressed as an Executive Order and sings, "I'm an executive order, and I pretty much just happen."
The Bill (Thompson) climbs back up the stairs and declares, "Look at the midterm elections. People clearly don't want this."
Obama is asked whether this is constitutional. "Of course," he says. "Presidents issue executive orders all the time." Then the Executive Order (Moynihan) starts singing, "I'll create a new national park ... or a new highway," and, keeping with the rhythm, the president adds, "or bring legal status to 5 million undocument[ed] immigrants."
The Executive Order then looks at himself and shouts ,"Oh my God! I didn't have time to read myself. Woah!"
This skit got a couple of things right, and a couple of things wrong. For starters, Obama didn't sign an executive order. He is taking executive action, in particular by directing the Department of Homeland Security to expand programs that defer deportation for classes of undocumented immigrants — parents of U.S. citizens or permanent-resident children, as well as undocumented immigrants brought to the country as children.
See a handy flow chart to determine who qualifies.
Obama's action on Thursday adds 4 million new eligible immigrants, on top of the 1 million young immigrants who became eligible for deferred deportation under Obama's original 2012 program.
The cold open got the basic explanation of what the difference is between a law and executive order right. And SNL also is correct that more Americans, even if they support comprehensive immigration reform, don't believe Obama should do it by fiat.
As to whether the executive action is unconstitutional? That's a matter of debate, of course. Some House Republicans think so and may add a complaint to a suit they are planning to file challenging Obama's executive actions on his health-care law.
One Obama backer who also supports a comprehensive overhaul of immigration laws says the action may be impeachable, as "by constitutional design, impeachment for 'treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors' is a political accusation."
The best case may come from Republican governors and state attorneys general, who say that the actions will put new burdens on their local governments and that, thus, they may have the most legal "standing" to sue. Kansas's secretary of state, Kris Kobach, is one of them and is profiledin Sunday's Washington Post.
All that said, many legal experts are dubious about the success of a constitutional or legal challenge. Indeed, Obama benefits from considerable precedent: Presidents George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reaganused their authorities to extend protection to illegal immigrants.
According to the Justice Department memo spelling out Obama's legal authority, the president is drawing a careful line. He is protecting the parents of citizens and permanent residents — people who could conceivably have a right to become citizens in the future given they are the family of lawful permanent residents or citizens.
Meanwhile,  young immigrants brought to the United States as children had no say in their parents' decision to violate U.S. immigration law. Notably, the parents of these "dreamers," as advocates call them," are not protected under Obama's action, unless they also have children who are citizens and permanent residents.  From the Justice memo:
Many provisions of the [Immigration and Nationality Act] reflect Congress’s general concern with not separating individuals who are legally entitled to live in the United States from their immediate family members. ... But the immigration laws do not express comparable concern for uniting persons who lack lawful status (or prospective lawful status) in the United States with their families.
Obama's measure still goes far beyond his predecessors, who shielded anywhere from 100,000 to 1.5 million people from deportations. If there is a court challenge, it would, in any event, go on for years, perhaps into the next president's term.
And so what matters most for Obama's action is public opinion, and what his successor does. The SNL skit, in that sense, doesn't help him.



Media bias?
What media bias?
Apparently, the leader of the free world’s sensibilities have been offended by some really mean comedians.
Quick!
Lap dog media to the rescue!

The SNL skit doesn’t help him?
Well, we’ll fix that!
If this wasn't so pathetically transparent, it would be funny.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/24/2014, 4:13 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Artie60438 wrote:
   
Chickenshit Boehner has had a bi-partisan senate bill for 18 months that he's refused to bring to the floor because it might be seen as a victory for Obama.

Obama had Democrats holding both houses of congress for 2 years and didn’t get jack shit accomplished.

Seriously?  Do you happen to remember what was going on during the first 2 years of Obama's tenure? The idea that it was a real opportunity to bring an immigration reform bill to the floor is ludicrous.



So, to the extent there was a filibuster proof majority in the Senate it lasted during two brief periods which lasted for a total of just over five months when counted altogether (and Congress was in its traditional summer recess for most of the July-August 2009 time frame).



If immigration reform is so goddamned important that He now had to resort to executive action against the will of the people, there should have been no reason for Him to not have used those 5 months productively and gotten immigration reform passed properly through a filibuster-proof congress. How fucking long does it take 60 Democrats to raise their hands and say, “Aye”? (I realize we’re talking about Democrats, and even that minor task might tend to confuse them. But really …. 5 months and nothing?) Or did He wait simply to give His bad self the opportunity to grandstand on the issue, as He just did?

Let's do a reality check... In 2007, 15 Senate Democrats voted with the GOP against Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Obama took office in 2009 and had to get the votes for the "stimulus" bill and then the Affordable Care Act.

It sure as hell was not the opportune time to bring up Immigration Reform, and the idea that he waited so that he could "grandstand" years later is fucking absurd.

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/24/2014, 6:26 pm

happy jack wrote:

If immigration reform is so goddamned important that He now had to resort to executive action against the will of the people,

Yoo hoo Very Happy
Latino voters of both parties blame Congressional Republicans for failing to pass an immigration reform bill
[/b]
Quote :
Latino voters of both parties blame Congressional Republicans for failing to pass an immigration reform bill

The vast majority of Latinos and voters under the age of 35 support President Barack Obama’s executive action last Thursday shielding between 4 and 5 million undocumented immigrants from deportation, according to new national polls.
More
President Obama Distorts ‘Amnesty’ to Sell His Executive ActionsObama Touts Immigration Actions in Las VegasCall for Calm: Leaders Urge Peace Ahead of Ferguson Decision NBC NewsThanksgiving Travel: Snow, Ice and Wind Spell Trouble NBC News'Unwelcome': Fear Binds Police and Protesters in Ferguson NBC News

The overwhelming support from these two growing demographics may have major implications for voter turnout and party affiliation in 2016.

Almost 90% of Latino voters say they “support” or “strongly support” Obama’s executive action, according to a national poll by Latino Decisions and commissioned by two pro-immigration reform groups, Presente.org and Mi Familia Vota.

Nearly three-fourths (72%) of voters under the age of 35 supported the president’s action, according to a national poll by Hart Research Associates [PDF].

While both Latinos and young voters showed particularly strong support, 67% of all voters—both men and women from states that supported both Obama and Mitt Romney in 2012—felt favorably toward the executive action, according to the Hart Research poll. More than two-thirds of all voters were in favor of allowing the undocumented parents of children or young adults to stay in the U.S., and of providing temporary work permits to eligible immigrants.

Both polls found that voters believe Obama’s executive action is lawful. Respondents strongly disagreed with strategies, suggested by some Republicans, to fight the action: 72% of voters opposed the idea of Republicans shutting down the government until the president agrees to end the executive action, according to the Hart Research poll. (62% of Tea Party Republicans were in favor of that strategy.) Four out of five Latino voters opposed the idea of Republicans passing a bill to defund a federal program issuing work permits to undocumented workers, according to the Latino Decisions poll.

Latino support for the executive action appears to be largely bipartisan, according to Latino Decisions. While 95% of Democratic Latino voters were in favor of the executive action, 76% of Republican Latinos were as well. The issue of immigration reform remains deeply personal for many Latino voters, 64% of whom have friends, family members, coworkers, or acquaintances who are undocumented.

Sixty-four percent of Latino voters blamed Congressional Republicans for failing to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill; 24% blame Obama and Democrats, according to the Latino Decisions poll.

LIke I said earlier in the thread...."Check Mate".
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   11/24/2014, 6:54 pm

Yep.  Directly from the Harris Poll...

Quote :
Voters respond favorably by an overwhelming 39 - point margin to executive action by President Obama that would focus immigration enforcement efforts on threats to national security and public safety while allowing some illegal immigrants to stay and work in the United States(67% favorable, 28% unfavorable).

Support is broad, incorporating a majority of voters in every region of the country, among both men and women, and in states won by both Barack Obama (67% favorable) and Mitt Romney (65% favorable).

Doesn't sound like the action taken was (as Jack put it) "against the will of the people," does it?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   12/28/2014, 3:26 pm

Ignorant House Troll wrote:

And no, I am not one of those “unsuspecting Americans”. I suspected from the beginning that Obamacare was going to suck the big one.
Right-Wing Media's Catastrophic ACA Predictions Still Haven't Materialized
MYTH: ACA Will Eliminate Millions Of Jobs

MYTH: Obamacare Won't Reduce Number Of Uninsured Americans

MYTH: The Affordable Care Act Is "Failing The Public"

MYTH: "Millions Will Lose Insurance" As Companies Drop Health Benefits

MYTH: The Affordable Care Act Creates "Death Panels" To Ration Care

MYTH: Health Care Premiums Will Rise Dramatically Thanks To Obamacare

REALITY: The ACA Reduces Job Lock, Creates Jobs, Stimulates Economy

REALITY: Millions Have Received Coverage Through The Affordable Care Act

REALITY: Those Enrolled Say The Health Care Law Is Working

REALITY: Studies Show That Most Employers Are Not Dropping Health Benefits

REALITY: Claims Of Death Panels Have Been Conclusively Debunked

REALITY: Increases In Health Care Premiums Have Slowed Since Implementation Of ACA
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   6/25/2015, 4:07 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
Dumbest slug on the Internet wrote:

And no, I am not one of those “unsuspecting Americans”. I suspected from the beginning that Obamacare was going to suck the big one.
The Supreme Court’s Obamacare Decision Is The Biggest Possible Win For The Obama Administration
Quote :
The Supreme Court’s 6-3 decision in King v. Burwell is not simply a victory for the Obama administration — and for the millions of Americans who depend upon the Affordable Care Act for their health coverage. It is a sweeping, crushing blow for conservatives who seek to use the courts to undo what President Obama and a Democratic Congress accomplished. “In a democracy,” Chief Justice John Roberts implicitly scolds the activists behind this litigation, “the power to make the law rests with those chosen by the people.” He then offers a broad statement to future judges called upon to interpret the Affordable Care Act: “Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them. If at all possible, we must interpret the Act in a way that is consistent with the former, and avoids the latter.”
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   6/29/2015, 9:28 am

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   6/29/2015, 12:02 pm

edge540 wrote:

Ha! Seeing that Dick Morris predicted the end of Obamacare in 2014,it turns out we had nothing to worry about all along.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: How 'bout that Obamacare?   6/29/2015, 12:27 pm

Heh, all these right wing morons haven't been right about anything for the last 6 years.
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