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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/27/2016, 12:53 pm

happy jack wrote:

Why don’t you put that working brain of yours to good use and explain to us idiots how your Bona Fide Transsexual Detector actually works.
I’ve been axing you for quite some time now to explain it, but you’ve come up quite short in your ability to do so.
It's a quality called common sense which apparently you've never developed.



dumb as box of rocks wrote:
And look!!!!
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!
dumb as box of rocks wrote:






What do you think your detector would have told you about him?
Is he one of those 'sincere' transgender chaps, do you think?
No,You fucking idiot. He's an employee of Target who was asked their policy by some moron like yourself with a video camera.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 9:10 am

happy jack wrote:
http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/is-it-illegal-for-a-man-to-use-the-ladies-room/

Supporting that interpretation is Com. v. White, 538 A.2d 887 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1988), where the court affirmed a conviction for criminal trespass after the male defendant entered the women’s restroom of an athletic club. The court ruled that the restroom was a “separately secured or occupied portion” of the building that was reserved for women’s use.

Well color me flabbergasted.  I appreciate the links.

Though you promptly ignored the second half of my post:

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Is he to be considered a victim too, or does that apply only to the transgendered crowd?  I mean, if he's comfortable, that's all that matters, right?


How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?  See why it might be an issue?  They're fucking damned if they do and damned if they don't.  The only solution that has any chance of solving the problem is genital checks prior to entrance.  Given the arrest rates of Republican politicians in bathrooms, I'm sure there's plenty of them that would volunteer.

Though I can understand why. It highlights how laughably unenforceable all of this is, and how necessary the protections are.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 9:53 am

Raging Yeast Infection wrote:

dumb as box of rocks wrote:
And look!!!!
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!
What do you think your detector would have told you about him?
Is he one of those 'sincere' transgender chaps, do you think?
No,You fucking idiot. He's an employee of Target who was asked their policy by some moron like yourself with a video camera.



It’s patently clear that you watched the video, based upon the fact that you know full well that the gist of the video concerned the Target employees being asked about their bathroom policy.
So, we come to this point:
By pretending to claim that your belief was that the guy in the still frame of the video intro was the one whom I was referencing when I said this ….


happy jack wrote:
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!


…. tells me that you are either:

A. A liar
B. Monumentally stupid

I could buy either one of those scenarios, but in this case, I think I’m gonna go the ‘liar’ route.
And why, one might ask, would you lie about something so seemingly inconsequential?
Well, for one thing, you lie like most people breathe, but in this case, it is because you have no way to explain or justify Target’s policy in regard to a non-transgendered man using the women’s facilities.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 10:00 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
http://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/is-it-illegal-for-a-man-to-use-the-ladies-room/

Supporting that interpretation is Com. v. White, 538 A.2d 887 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1988), where the court affirmed a conviction for criminal trespass after the male defendant entered the women’s restroom of an athletic club. The court ruled that the restroom was a “separately secured or occupied portion” of the building that was reserved for women’s use.

Well color me flabbergasted.  I appreciate the links.

Though you promptly ignored the second half of my post:

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Is he to be considered a victim too, or does that apply only to the transgendered crowd?  I mean, if he's comfortable, that's all that matters, right?


How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?  See why it might be an issue?  They're fucking damned if they do and damned if they don't.  The only solution that has any chance of solving the problem is genital checks prior to entrance.  Given the arrest rates of Republican politicians in bathrooms, I'm sure there's plenty of them that would volunteer.

Though I can understand why.  It highlights how laughably unenforceable all of this is, and how necessary the protections are.



Actually, what it highlights is the unfortunate fact that all men, transgendered and non-transgendered, may now be allowed unfettered access to all facilities, whether or not those facilities have been traditionally and exclusively occupied by women.
But hey, as long as the naked non-transgendered guy sitting next to your naked 7 year-old daughter is comfortable …. well, that’s what really matters.
Right?
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 10:16 am

happy jack wrote:
Actually, what it highlights is the unfortunate fact that all men, transgendered and non-transgendered, may now be allowed unfettered access to all facilities, whether or not those facilities have been traditionally and exclusively occupied by women.

It does no such thing, as your own link from Thinkprogress notes. Do you not read your own links?  You haven't answered any of my questions:

Quote :
How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?

Including all transgender males who are, according to you, where they're supposed to be.

happy jack wrote:
But hey, as long as the naked non-transgendered guy sitting next to your naked 7 year-old daughter is comfortable …. well, that’s what really matters.
Right?

Where the fuck do you take your daughter where a) she's naked, and b) there's a guy sitting next to her?  

Also, have you never seen a father bring his daughter into the men's restroom?  Should I call CPS the next time I see it, because clearly it must be child abuse, no?  Or should I just have her arrested because she's breaking the law?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 10:33 am

happy jack wrote:
Raging Yeast Infection wrote:

dumb as box of rocks wrote:
And look!!!!
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!
What do you think your detector would have told you about him?
Is he one of those 'sincere' transgender chaps, do you think?
No,You fucking idiot. He's an employee of Target who was asked their policy by some moron like yourself with a video camera.



It’s patently clear that you watched the video, based upon the fact that you know full well that the gist of the video concerned the Target employees being asked about their bathroom policy.
So, we come to this point:
By pretending to claim that your belief was that the guy in the still frame of the video intro was the one whom I was referencing when I said this ….


happy jack wrote:
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!
[b]

…. tells me that you are either:

A. A liar
B. Monumentally stupid
You might want to go with C. A hell of a lot smarter than you. You conveniently took down the video after I exposed you for the foolish troll that you are.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 10:47 am



To your daughter's.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 10:55 am

Artie60438 wrote:
You conveniently took down the video after I exposed you for the foolish troll that you are.

I don't think happy did. It looks like the original uploader to YouTube did.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 11:01 am

Heretic wrote:
   

Where the fuck do you take your daughter where a) she's naked ….

Have you never been to the changing room of a public pool, gym, health club, etc.?



Heretic wrote:
   

Where the fuck do you take your daughter where a) she's naked, and b) there's a guy sitting next to her?  

Until now, nowhere.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 11:03 am

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Raging Yeast Infection wrote:

dumb as box of rocks wrote:
And look!!!!
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!
What do you think your detector would have told you about him?
Is he one of those 'sincere' transgender chaps, do you think?
No,You fucking idiot. He's an employee of Target who was asked their policy by some moron like yourself with a video camera.



It’s patently clear that you watched the video, based upon the fact that you know full well that the gist of the video concerned the Target employees being asked about their bathroom policy.
So, we come to this point:
By pretending to claim that your belief was that the guy in the still frame of the video intro was the one whom I was referencing when I said this ….


happy jack wrote:
This guy wasn't even required to walk through your detector!!!!


…. tells me that you are either:

A. A liar
B. Monumentally stupid

You might want to go with C. A hell of a lot smarter than you. You conveniently took down the video after I exposed you for the foolish troll that you are.




C is not an option.
I had nothing to do with taking down the video, Liar Boy.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 11:10 am

happy jack wrote:
Have you never been to the changing room of a public pool, gym, health club, etc.?

No kids.  I've been very clear on that. Since it's called "the changing room", I'm less clear how that's applicable to the discussion of transgender bathroom use.

happy jack wrote:
Until now, nowhere.

So again, where the fuck do you take your daughter now where a) she's naked, and b) there's a guy sitting next to her?

You still haven't answered these either:

I wrote:
How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?

I wrote:
Should I call CPS the next time I see it, because clearly it must be child abuse, no?  Or should I just have her arrested because she's breaking the law?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 11:36 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Have you never been to the changing room of a public pool, gym, health club, etc.?

No kids.  I've been very clear on that.

happy jack wrote:
Until now, nowhere.

So again, where the fuck do you take your daughter now where a) she's naked, and b) there's a guy sitting next to her?





Now?
Pretty much any changing room of a public pool, gym, health club, etc., anywhere.
Apparently, it's up to the guy now, isn't it?
He can be wherever he wants to be because, you know - gotta look out for his comfort.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 11:49 am

happy jack wrote:
Pretty much any changing room of a public pool, gym, health club, etc., anywhere.

So anywhere that already allows men?  Like I said:

I wrote:
Since it's called "the changing room", I'm less clear how that's applicable to the discussion of transgender bathroom use.

happy jack wrote:
Apparently, it's up to the guy now, isn't it?

Yeah, this guy:



But you're there, so it already allows men, no?  Plus, regarding bathroom use:

I wrote:
It does no such thing, as your own link from Thinkprogress notes. Do you not read your own links?

Also,

I wrote:
You still haven't answered these either:

I wrote:
How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?

I wrote:
Should I call CPS the next time I see it, because clearly it must be child abuse, no?  Or should I just have her arrested because she's breaking the law?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 4:00 pm

I wrote:
Since it's called "the changing room", I'm less clear how that's applicable to the discussion of transgender bathroom use.


I wasn’t limiting this discussion to bathrooms only. There has already been discussion about locker rooms and other facilities throughout this thread.



Heretic wrote:
   
But you're there, so it already allows men, no?  

Well, no, I’m not there. But I believe most normal fathers would like to be able to send their young daughters unsupervised into a changing room without having to worry that someone like you is watching them change.



Heretic wrote:
   

I wrote:
You still haven't answered these either:

I wrote:
How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?

I wouldn’t know, and I’m sure men have been surreptitiously entering women’s public facilities ever since public facilities became a concept, and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so. I do not, however, see a need to legalize, encourage, and condone it, as you apparently do.



Heretic wrote:
 

Also, have you never seen a father bring his daughter into the men's restroom?  Should I call CPS the next time I see it, because clearly it must be child abuse, no?  Or should I just have her arrested because she's breaking the law?

Yes, I have, and that’s an entirely different scenario than we have been discussing. If you are too dense, or too dishonest, to realize that, then I really can’t help you.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/28/2016, 4:28 pm

Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...




https://www.yahoo.com/style/would-you-let-this-girl-use-the-mens-bathroom-125853703.html

Quote :
Though she was born a boy, the 16-year-old has known she was transgender for many years. Even at age two she recalls getting a truck for Christmas while one of her sisters received a Barbie and wanting nothing to do with the truck. She feels like she lived the first decade of her life in a body that didn’t belong to her. Six months ago, her mother surprised her with a gift of her first dose of hormones.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 5:33 am

Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?








Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...


Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?



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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 8:56 am

Or this woman:



Now imagine it was him that recorded that video at Target.

happy jack wrote:
Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?

With all this talk about daughters, it's glad to see you're perfectly fine with him diddling your son in the men's bathroom.  Father of the fucking year.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 9:23 am

happy jack wrote:
I wrote:
How exactly would you know without checking for a penis and testicles?  Or without him doing something that already illegal?  Is that your solution?  Kick out anyone from a women's bathroom that looks like a man?

I wouldn’t know...

Exactly.  Of course you don't.  All of this is laughably unenforceable, vapid nonsense predicated on the idea that all transgendered look like easily identifiable circus freaks. It's an absolute non-issue, debunked by criminologists and psychologists and decades of statistics, that wouldn't be affected in any way by the legislation proposed by the "small government" GOP even if it were an issue.

happy jack wrote:
I do not, however, see a need to legalize, encourage, and condone it, as you apparently do.

Nobody is legalizing bathroom pedophilia.  Your own link demonstrated that.  If you are too dense, or too dishonest, to realize that, then I really can’t help you.

happy jack wrote:
Yes, I have, and that’s an entirely different scenario than we have been discussing.

I agree, but it's still illegal.  I personally think its fine, but I don't know if the GOP's legislation is making exceptions for children accompanied by adults in there rush to protect children from the non-existent scourge of gender-disguised bathroom rapists.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 10:01 am

Heretic wrote:
   
happy jack wrote:
I do not, however, see a need to legalize, encourage, and condone it, as you apparently do.

Nobody is legalizing bathroom pedophilia.  Your own link demonstrated that.  If you are too dense, or too dishonest, to realize that, then I really can’t help you.




I said nothing of the sort.
I'm sorry that your arguments won't fly, but there's no need to make things up.




Heretic wrote:
   
With all this talk about daughters, it's glad to see you're perfectly fine with him diddling your son in the men's bathroom.  Father of the fucking year.


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chuckmo48

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 2:07 pm

The catholic church is in favor of this law...that should make everyone feel safe against pedophiles...Transgender aren't the pedophiles. Dennis Hastert loved using the boy's bathroom...and only 3 heartbeats away from the presidency...
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 2:35 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?

No, of course not.

happy jack wrote:

Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?

No, absolutely not.

What's your point?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 6:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?

No, of course not.

Why not?



happy jack wrote:

Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?

Scorpion wrote:
No, absolutely not.

Why not?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/29/2016, 11:50 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?

No, of course not.

Why not?

Because I don't believe that she would feel comfortable or safe using the men's bathroom.


happy jack wrote:

Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?
Scorpion wrote:

No, absolutely not.

happy jack wrote:

Why not?

Because I don't believe that his presence in the women's bathroom would allow the women in the bathroom to feel comfortable or safe.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/30/2016, 2:38 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?

No, of course not.

Why not?

Because I don't believe that she would feel comfortable or safe using the men's bathroom.

You agreed a while back that people with penises are men. If ‘she’ has a penis, then clearly, ‘she’ is not a ‘she’. ‘She’ be a ‘he’, by your own admission. So why shouldn’t 'she' use the men’s room? ‘She’, after all, is hauling around the same equipment as everyone else in the room.





happy jack wrote:

Would you let this man use your 7 year-old daughter's bathroom?
Scorpion wrote:

No, absolutely not.

happy jack wrote:

Why not?

Because I don't believe that his presence in the women's bathroom would allow the women in the bathroom to feel comfortable or safe.



You seem to put an awful lot of emphasis on the comfort level of people. Why, if this guy feels comfortable using the bathroom next to your 7 year-old daughter, doesn’t his comfort level deserve as much of your respect as the comfort level of anyone else?
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   4/30/2016, 2:51 pm

happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
Yeah. Well here's a perfect example of the actual issue...



Would you let this girl use the men's bathroom?

No, of course not.

Why not?

Because I don't believe that she would feel comfortable or safe using the men's bathroom.

You agreed a while back that people with penises are men. If ‘she’ has a penis, then clearly, ‘she’ is not a ‘she’. ‘She’ be a ‘he’, by your own admission. So why shouldn’t 'she' use the men’s room? ‘She’, after all, is hauling around the same equipment as everyone else in the room.

Really? Is that all that I said?  Let's look...

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Call me old-fashioned too, because I also tend to think of people with penises as men.
Does anyone on this forum dispute that notion?

No of course not.  But there is no question that there are people who are transgender. To me, that sounds like a nightmarish existence. It's certainly no mystery why a transgender person would feel ostracized.  

Unlike you, I accept the reality that transgender people exist.  I have no reason to think that this person is anything but transgender.  I certainly don't need a "detector" to make the call in this case.

happy jack wrote:


You seem to put an awful lot of emphasis on the comfort level of people. Why, if this guy feels comfortable using the bathroom next to your 7 year-old daughter, doesn’t his comfort level deserve as much of your respect as the comfort level of anyone else?

No, he doesn't.  You don't think so either, so quit being an ass about it.
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