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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/5/2018, 11:34 pm

happy jack wrote:
Thanks for clearing all that up.

No problem.  Glad I could help.   Wink

happy jack wrote:
So, you Google 'GIPANDO laws', cite the first study that pops up...

So many questions!   Laughing

A) Did you not read the study the first time I cited it?  The study was making the rounds in the media back in September, see here, here, here, or here, though it's understandable why Fox News and National Review ignored it.

B) Do you think googling for information is inherently bad?  You seem to suggest that it is, which would explain everything.

happy jack wrote:
and pretend that you even know what this means:

Average annual crime rate in incidents per 100,000 people are in the parentheses; 90% confidence intervals are in the brackets; χ 2/2 - 1.42; ;p=0.49;
Fisher's exact = 0.658. difference-in-difference = 0.41, bootstrapped S.E. = 1.05, p = 0.699

And I give you Fisher's Exact Test, Difference in Differences, Bootstrapping, and P Values.  Common in peer reviewed statistical analyses, and found in just about every published study I've ever cited over the past 15 or so years on these forums.  I'm a decade+ out of my stats classes, and since reading as opposed to writing such studies is part of my profession, that's the best I can do.

But speaking of, C) Do you disagree with the conclusion of the analysis because it's too complicated for you?

D) Is such concrete understanding of hard data necessary for you to believe something to be real?  Like if I cited the biomedical equations from the studies that led to the development of Tylenol or chemo treatments, or the complicated equations necessary for CERN to operate or the discovery of the Higgs boson, would you suddenly doubt their effectiveness and existence, respectively?

Or E) Are you just trying to distract us from the fact that you are conclusively full of shit on this issue, in both your understanding of the related biology and psychology as well as your irrational fears of sexual predation?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/6/2018, 9:02 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Thanks for clearing all that up.

No problem.  Glad I could help.   Wink

happy jack wrote:
So, you Google 'GIPANDO laws', cite the first study that pops up...

So many questions!   Laughing

A) Did you not read the study the first time I cited it?  The study was making the rounds in the media back in September, see here, here, here, or here, though it's understandable why Fox News and National Review ignored it.

B) Do you think googling for information is inherently bad?  You seem to suggest that it is, which would explain everything.

happy jack wrote:
and pretend that you even know what this means:

Average annual crime rate in incidents per 100,000 people are in the parentheses; 90% confidence intervals are in the brackets; χ 2/2 - 1.42; ;p=0.49;
Fisher's exact = 0.658. difference-in-difference = 0.41, bootstrapped S.E. = 1.05, p = 0.699

And I give you Fisher's Exact Test, Difference in Differences, Bootstrapping, and P Values.  Common in peer reviewed statistical analyses, and found in just about every published study I've ever cited over the past 15 or so years on these forums.  I'm a decade+ out of my stats classes, and since reading as opposed to writing such studies is part of my profession, that's the best I can do.

But speaking of, C) Do you disagree with the conclusion of the analysis because it's too complicated for you?

D) Is such concrete understanding of hard data necessary for you to believe something to be real?  Like if I cited the biomedical equations from the studies that led to the development of Tylenol or chemo treatments, or the complicated equations necessary for CERN to operate or the discovery of the Higgs boson, would you suddenly doubt their effectiveness and existence, respectively?

I stand corrected - you clearly do have a good grasp as to statistics, most certainly a better grasp than I have, ….



Heretic wrote:
    Or E) Are you just trying to distract us from the fact that you are conclusively full of shit on this issue, in both your understanding of the related biology and psychology as well as your irrational fears of sexual predation?

…. but as to how much statistics overall actually translate to the real world?
Kind of a different story.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/8/2018, 11:13 am

happy jack wrote:



Heretic wrote:
    Or E) Are you just trying to distract us from the fact that you are conclusively full of shit on this issue, in both your understanding of the related biology and psychology as well as your irrational fears of sexual predation?

…. but as to how much statistics overall actually translate to the real world?
Kind of a different story.

Really? This study is an actual measurement of the "real world." How does that translate into "kind of a different story?"

You're simply wrong on this issue, jack. There's no shame in being wrong. None of us are perfect. None of us know everything, or are right 100% of the time.

Time to accept it and move on.

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/8/2018, 12:18 pm

Scorpion wrote:
happy jack wrote:



Heretic wrote:
    Or E) Are you just trying to distract us from the fact that you are conclusively full of shit on this issue, in both your understanding of the related biology and psychology as well as your irrational fears of sexual predation?

…. but as to how much statistics overall actually translate to the real world?
Kind of a different story.

Really?   This study is an actual measurement of the "real world."  How does that translate into "kind of a different story?"  

You're simply wrong on this issue, jack.  There's no shame in being wrong.    None of us are perfect.  None of us know everything, or are right 100% of the time.  

Time to accept it and move on.


https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html

Nearly 1 in 5 Women in U.S. Survey Say They Have Been Sexually Assaulted


Dispatch: Hello - 911.

Caller: Help me, please - a man just broke into my home and raped me.

Dispatch: Are you sure? Because statistics say that only 20% of women are sexually assaulted.

Caller: Yes, I'm sure.

Dispatch: Are you really sure? Because the statistics really aren't backing you up on this.

Caller: Yes, I'm very sure. Can you please send help?

Dispatch: We don't currently have the manpower to help you, so I can send only 20% of any available personnel because, statistically, you are rather insignificant.

Caller: PLEASE - SEND HELP NOW!!!!

Dispatch: Shut up.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/10/2018, 12:36 pm

Your "example" is totally absurd.  Twenty percent is a frickin' huge number, and very statistically significant.  Quite a contrast with the studies provided by Heretic...
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/10/2018, 1:56 pm

happy jack wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/health/nearly-1-in-5-women-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html

Nearly 1 in 5 Women in U.S. Survey Say They Have Been Sexually Assaulted

And how many in that survey said they'd been assaulted in bathrooms by men in dresses taking advantage of the relevant bathroom laws?

You're making my point for me.

And for what it's worth, there's more up to date and accurate statistics here: https://www.nsvrc.org/statistics

Still no mythical, cross dressing, bathroom rapists though.

It's almost as if they don't exist.  Shocked
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/10/2018, 2:01 pm

And don't for a fucking minute pretend you actually give a shit, happy.  That statistic is exactly why we have the Violence Against Women Act, which, despite what it does, you're still somehow against, remember?  And you'd have zero trouble condemning any of those women to death while forcing them, children even, to carry their rape baby to term.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/10/2018, 5:22 pm

Heretic wrote:
And don't for a fucking minute pretend you actually give a shit, happy.  That statistic is exactly why we have the Violence Against Women Act, which, despite what it does, you're still somehow against, remember?  And you'd have zero trouble condemning any of those women to death while forcing them, children even, to carry their rape baby to term.

Have you considered maybe breaking the pills in half?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/14/2018, 11:50 pm

Thank goodness for the magnanimous tolerance of the Left, and for their respect for the right to speak freely and practice one's religion.
All this, for merely abstaining?!?!
What if she had actually voted against the resolution?
Drawing and quartering?
Fucking assholes.



https://www.dailywire.com/news/38267/berkeley-christian-student-senator-pressured-kassy-dillon

Berkeley Student Senator Pressured To Resign For Abstaining From Vote For Religious Beliefs

"I pray that the Lord would use my story to shed light on how the church can better love the LGBTQ+ community while not compromising His truth spoken in love."

By Kassy Dillon

November 12, 2018

A Christian student senator at the University of California, Berkeley, is being ousted from her position after abstaining from a resolution that condemns the Trump administration for considering narrowing the definition of gender.
The resolution was introduced on October 31, and in response, Isabella Chow gave a statement explaining why she could not vote on the resolution because of her Christian beliefs.
“My God is one who assigns immeasurable value to and desires to love each and every human being. In God’s eyes and therefore my own, everyone of you here today and in the LGBTQ+ community as a whole is significant, valid, wanted, and loved — even if and when our views differ,” Chow said.

“That said, I cannot vote for this bill without compromising my values and my responsibility to the community that elected me to represent them,” Chow continued. “As a Christian, I personally do believe that certain acts and lifestyles conflict with what is good, right, and true. I believe that God created male and female at the beginning of time, and designed sex for marriage between one man and one woman. For me, to love another person does not mean that I silently concur when, at the bottom of my heart, I do not believe that your choices are right or the best for you as an individual.”
“After lengthy conversations with many of my community leaders and advisors, I have chosen to abstain from voting on these bills tonight,” she added.
According to Campus Reform, the resolution condemned the proposed Title IX changes that include limiting “gender identity” to physical sex. The proposed changes were mentioned in a memo from the Department of Health and Human Services which outlines a legal definition to sex under Title IX.
After her statement, Student Action, the party of which Chow was a member, cut ties with her, claiming that there are “inconsistencies between her beliefs” and the party, including perspectives on “reproductive health and wellness resources, legal protections for survivors of sexual violence, and community space for vulnerable members of our student body.”
Teddy Lake, the student senator who introduced the resolution, condemned Chow and proceeded to label her as a bigot in a statement.
“Tonight was a harrowing reminder of the kind of bigotry that persists in contemporary society and, more specifically, sits across from me on the Senate floor,” Lake wrote.
“I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance required to make a statement as disingenuous and harmful as the one Senator Chow made tonight,” Lake added. “The contradictions present in her speech are, frankly, disturbing and irreconcilable. Perhaps what most offends me, though, is Senator Chow’s outrageous ask that we, as a Senate class, respect her “beliefs” as she does ours. To that end, I’d like to clarify that what Senator Chow expressed tonight were not beliefs at all — they were hateful prejudices that deserve nothing less than the strongest condemnation from myself, my community, and my colleagues. I have no obligation to entertain or engage with individuals who deny my right to exist loudly and proudly as a member of the LGBTQ+ community.”

Chow attempted to defend herself by sending an op-ed to the school’s newspaper, the Daily Cal, but was rejected because it “reinforces” her original statement which they deemed “utilized rhetoric that is homophobic and transphobic by the Daily Cal’s standards,” Campus Reform reports. She also attempted to edit her piece to comply with the standards of the Daily Cal but was still rejected because “the submission as a whole doesn’t meet the newspaper’s editorial standards.” The paper referred to its submission page on its website that claims, “Op-eds that are deemed libelous, racist, sexist, homophobic, or highly offensive in any other manner will not print.”
The school’s Queer Alliance Resource Center (QARC) also condemned Chow and called for her resignation.
At the Senate meeting last week, hundreds of students protested Chow and even had a large banner that said, “Senator Chow Resign now.”
Chow told The Daily Wire that she has faced criticism before for being pro-life but she was not expecting “such a concerted and targeted attack.”

“Over the past couple of days, I’ve learned a lot about the viciousness of online harassment. If people want to attack me, it’s much easier for them to whip out their phones and tweet a scathing remark that will gain likes, comments, and reshares,” Chow said. “It takes a lot more courage to send me a personal message or email with direct threats or insults, and even more courage to look me in the eye and say the same slurs that they so casually use on social media. Even though vocal opponents have largely avoided me on campus and in personal communication, it doesn’t mitigate the pain of hurtful words that I see on social media every day.”
Chow said she stands by her comments and does not plan to resign.
Chow has also been voted out of the Publications and Media Board without being granted a meeting to defend herself. “I’ve also been disaffiliated with pretty much every publications/media club on campus, almost all without a heads up or before I had the chance to speak with club leaders that I’ve worked so long with.”

Chow also provided The Daily Wire with the following statement:
For me and the church here at Berkeley, free speech is an issue that has been highlighted, but it's not the primary issue at stake here. As one of my staffers put it, this is "people issue" – people who feel hurt and unable to reconcile how the traditional Christian worldview can profess to love LGBTQ+ individuals while disagreeing with their lifestyles and the promotion of their identities. Even if the church continues to be misunderstood and slandered, our responsibility is not to shout our beliefs loudly above the noise, but to emulate the unconditional love and truth of Jesus.
As tumultuous as the past couple weeks have been for me, my deepest prayer is that the church in Berkeley and beyond would increase dialogue regarding the intersection of faith and the LGBTQ+ community. We do not have to agree 100% theologically or practically, but must recognize that the LGBTQ+ community has been shunned and hurt by the church for too long. I recognize that behind all the anger and backlash are wounded hearts and traumatic narratives that only God can redeem. I pray that the Lord would use my story to shed light on how the church can better love the LGBTQ+ community while not compromising His truth spoken in love.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/17/2018, 4:46 am

happy jack wrote:
Have you considered maybe breaking the pills in half?

Have you considered offering an honest and factual rebuttal? Or at the very least, considered being intellectually consistent?  

Just to reiterate:

I wrote:
And how many in that survey said they'd been assaulted in bathrooms by men in dresses taking advantage of the relevant bathroom laws?

We'll wait.

happy jack wrote:
Berkeley Student Senator Pressured To Resign For Abstaining From Vote For Religious Beliefs

So, just to be clear, if this was a religious objection to miscegenation, you'd be totes on board, right?  Because "sincerely held beliefs" or whatever?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/17/2018, 11:43 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Have you considered maybe breaking the pills in half?

Have you considered offering an honest and factual rebuttal? Or at the very least, considered being intellectually consistent?  

Just to reiterate:

I wrote:
And how many in that survey said they'd been assaulted in bathrooms by men in dresses taking advantage of the relevant bathroom laws?

We'll wait.

None, as far as I know, and I never said otherwise. Why do you ax?
We were talking about the statistical possibility of something occurring, and I happened to use that as an example. I could just as easily have cited statistics on seat belt usage or vaccination.




Heretic wrote:
 
happy jack wrote:
Berkeley Student Senator Pressured To Resign For Abstaining From Vote For Religious Beliefs

So, just to be clear, if this was a religious objection to miscegenation, you'd be totes on board, right?  Because "sincerely held beliefs" or whatever?

She merely holds a view that happens to be different from certain other people. She is not imposing her views on anyone, but rather simply stating those views while remaining neutral in her actions. To the best of my knowledge, that is (at least for the time being) still allowed in this country.
Am I right or wrong on that?
Would you have more respect for her if she just ran with the crowd, counter to her beliefs?

("Totes" on board? Who am I talking to?
Paris Hilton?
Kim Kardashian?)
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Transgender bathroom use   11/23/2018, 6:17 pm

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/11/21/god-gender-neutral-archbishop-canterbury/

God is gender neutral, says the Archbishop of Canterbury

Josh Jackman

21st November 2018, 7:52 PM

God is a gender neutral being, according to Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby.
During a lecture on Wednesday (November 21) at St Martin-in-the-Fields church in London’s Trafalgar Square, the Archbishop responded to an attendee who asked about God as a father by saying that “God is not male or female,” according to The Times.
 Welby, who said last year that boys wearing dresses to school was “not a problem,” explained that “all human language about God is inadequate and to some degree metaphorical.
God is gender neutral in Catholicism and Protestantism, despite male depictions (Public Domain)
“We can’t pin God down”
— Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby
“God is not a father in exactly the same way as a human being is a father. God is not male or female. God is not definable,” continued the Archbishop.
“It is extraordinarily important as Christians that we remember that the definitive revelation of who God is was not in words, but in the word of God who we call Jesus Christ. We can’t pin God down.”
Is God gender neutral in Christianity?
Both the Protestant and Catholic Churches already approve of this gender neutral way of viewing God.
In the Church of England’s guiding Articles of Religion, a document which dates back to 1562, God is defined as being “without body, parts, or passions.”
This description portrays God as a gender neutral being—as well as one without a sexuality—in a uniformly positive way, going on in the same sentence to praise the deity’s “wisdom and goodness.”
The Archbishop of Canterbury said that “God is not male or female. God is not definable” (Jack Taylor/Getty)
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that God can be compared to a father or a mother, but should not be seen as literally being either.
“God’s parental tenderness can also be expressed by the image of motherhood,” it reads, before warning that “human parents are fallible and can disfigure the face of fatherhood and motherhood.
“We ought therefore to recall that God transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God.
“He also transcends human fatherhood and motherhood, although he is their origin and standard: no-one is father as God is Father.”
Clergy and celebrities agree: God is not male
Ariana Grande released her song “God Is a Woman” earlier this year
Last year, the Church of Sweden advised its clergy to stop referring to God with male pronouns.
Sweden’s national church, an Evangelical Lutheran denomination, made the switch as part of a modernisation push which called on leaders to drop male identifiers such as “he,” “Father” and “the Lord.”
Instead of using the phrase “the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” during church services, clergy were urged to say: “God and the Holy Trinity.”
US pop sensation Ariana Grande also addressed the gender imbalance in the way that many religions see God as male by releasing her song “God Is a Woman” earlier this year, with a video that featured Madonna playing the part of God.




So, apparently, He can use any bathroom He wants, because "Clergy and celebrities agree".
Thank God.
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