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 Holder the Race-Hustler

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/30/2012, 4:45 pm

What a load of bullshit.
No one is being prevented from voting, due to race or any other characteristic; to state otherwise is simply a lie.
The man who is purportedly the Attorney General of the United States is acting more along the lines of a race hustler ranting away in some Daily Kos blogpost.



http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/05/holder-to-black-leaders-sacred-right-to-vote-under-124823.html

Holder to black leaders: 'Sacred' right to vote under attack

By JOSEPH WILLIAMS |
5/30/12 11:28 AM EDT

Attorney General Eric Holder told a council of African American church leaders Wednesday that the "sacred" right to vote is under assault nationwide, with federal lawsuits and at least a dozen state laws that could weaken — or block — minority access to the ballot box this fall.
Forty-seven years after President Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act, "overt and subtle forms of discrimination still exists," Holder said in a speech before the Council of Black Churches. The twin factors of lingering bias and systematic assaults from the right, he said, means that "for the first time in our [lifetimes], we are failing to live up to one of our most noble ideals" - the right to equal access to the vote.
The brief speech was a call to arms for the black church, which since the days of the civil rights movement has been active in fighting for equal voting right for minorities. Holder, who was warmly received by the audience, told them his office is "aggressively" taking on the task of protecting that right, including challenging several state lawsuits that would overturn key provisions of the Voting Rights Act involving redistricting in Southern states and strict new voter I'd laws that could keep minorities, the elderly and young people of all races from casting ballots in the 2012 election - which analysts expect will be decided by a narrow margin.
Ensuring that everyone who is qualified can vote "is one of our highest priorities," Holder told the council, adding that during his watch the Justice Department has taken on more than 100 cases involving voting within the past year, "a record number." Since President Bush re-authorized the Section 5 provision of the Voting Rights Act, which requires some Southern states to get federal approval before making broad changes to laws involving voting, "it has consistently come under attack by those who say it is no longer needed."
Holder also rejected conservatives' contention that making it easier to vote invites fraud, a key argument in calling for tougher voter I'd laws. Recalling that protesters and faith leaders faced violence and death to gain that right during the 1960s civil rights movement, Holder called on black churches to mobilize as an ally of the Justice Department, informing the larger community and pushing back against restrictive proposals.
"We have to honor the generations that took extraordinary risks" to guarantee equal access to the polls, Holder said. The nation has made tremendous progress, he added, but "this fight must go on."
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/30/2012, 4:50 pm

jack, you make up crap and lie. You and the republicans are full of bullshit.
Seriously, you should be embarrassed.
Republican voter supression is alive and well. WTF, I worked in 2000, why not NOW?
Quote :
Florida GOP Takes Voter Suppression to a Brazen New Extreme

Imagine this: a Republican governor in a crucial battleground state instructs his secretary of state to purge the voting rolls of hundreds of thousands of allegedly ineligible voters. The move disenfranchises thousands of legally registered voters, who happen to be overwhelmingly black and Hispanic Democrats. The number of voters prevented from casting a ballot exceeds the margin of victory in the razor-thin election, which ends up determining the next President of the United States.

If this scenario sounds familiar, that’s because it happened in Florida in 2000. And twelve years later, just months before another presidential election, history is repeating itself.

Back in 2000, 12,000 eligible voters – a number twenty-two times larger than George W. Bush’s 537 vote triumph over Al Gore – were wrongly identified as convicted felons and purged from the voting rolls in Florida, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. African Americans, who favored Gore over Bush by 86 points, accounted for 11 percent of the state’s electorate but 41 percent of those purged. Jeb Bush attempted a repeat performance in 2004 to help his brother win reelection but was forced to back off in the face of a public outcry. Yet with another close election looming, Florida Republicans have returned to their voter-scrubbing ways.

The latest purge comes on the heels of a trio of new voting restrictions passed by Florida Republicans last year, disenfranchising 100,000 previously eligible ex-felons who'd been granted the right to vote under GOP Governor Charlie Crist in 2008; shutting down non-partisan voter registration drives; and cutting back on early voting. The measures, the effect of which will be to depress Democratic turnout in November, are similar to voting curbs passed by Republicans in more than a dozen states, on the bogus pretext of combating "voter fraud" but with the very deliberate goal of shaping the electorate to the GOP's advantage before a single vote has been cast.

Florida Republicans have taken voter suppression to a brazen extreme. After the 2010 election, Gov. Rick Scott, a Republican, instructed Secretary of State Ken Browning to compile a massive database of alleged "non-citizen" voters. Browning resigned in February rather than implement Scott’s plan, saying "we were not confident enough about the information for this secretary to hang his hat on it."
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-gop-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530#ixzz1wOO4JPwa
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/30/2012, 5:16 pm

Resident troll must have missed this story....
Meet Bill: The 91-Year-Old Decorated WWII Veteran Targeted By Florida Governor Rick Scott’s Voter Purge
Quote :
Bill Internicola is a 91-year-old, Brooklyn-born, World War II veteran. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge and received the Bronze Star for bravery. He’s voted in Florida for 14 years and never had a problem.

Three weeks ago, Bill received a letter from Broward County Florida stating “[Y]ou are not a U.S. Citizen” and therefore, ineligible to vote. He was given the option of requesting “a hearing with the Supervisor of Elections, for the purpose of providing proof that you are a United States citizens” or forfeit his right to vote.

This decorated World War II veteran is just one of hundreds of fully eligible U.S. citizens being targeted by Governor Scott’s massive voter purge just prior to this year’s election, according to data obtained from Florida election officials by ThinkProgress. The purge list, according to an analysis by the Miami Herald, targets mostly Democrats and Hispanics.

The Advancement Project, a voting rights group in Florida, has asked the Justice Department to investigate, alleging that Scott’s voter purge violates federal law.

Bill appeared at a press conference this morning with Congressman Ted Deutch (D-FL), who has called on Scott to “immediately suspend” the voter purge.

Update

VoteVets.org, a veterans advocacy group, weighs in:

Quote :
“When someone who put their life on the line to protect the right to vote from fascists and empires is denied the right to vote, and is purged from voting rolls, there is something horribly, horribly wrong. Anyone who would stand behind an action that threatens the right to vote of a WWII vet is someone I would call un-American,” said Jon Soltz, Iraq War Veteran and Chairman of VoteVets.org
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/30/2012, 6:21 pm

What the hell does race have to do with any of this?
It would be nice if Holder could provide the names of specific persons who are preventing minorities from voting, and specific mechanisms by which they are allegedly keeping these folks from voting.
As it is, he is merely a cleaner and more articulate version of Al Sharpton, race hustler extraordinaire.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 8:33 am

happy jack wrote:
What the hell does race have to do with any of this?
Wow
What part do you not comprehend?
Quote :
The move disenfranchises thousands of legally registered voters, who happen to be overwhelmingly black and Hispanic Democrats.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 10:46 am

edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
What the hell does race have to do with any of this?
Wow
What part do you not comprehend?
Quote :
The move disenfranchises thousands of legally registered voters, who happen to be overwhelmingly black and Hispanic Democrats.



http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830

All told, a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans.



The only way that this disproportionately affects minorities is if you presume that minorities are incapable of following the same simple rules that white people apparently have no problem following.
Is that how you view minorities, edge?

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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 1:02 pm

jack:
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 1:52 pm

edge540 wrote:
jack:
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

My problem with this is that it is being framed as a racial issue when, in fact, it is nothing of the kind (unless we accept the premise, as you apparently do, that minorities are incapable of accomplishing that which white folks can accomplish with one hand tied behind their backs).
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 2:03 pm

See, edge? You won't get an answer. I asked that two months ago to no avail (and probably before).

It's quite telling, though. These Constitution loving conservatives have no problem throwing it under the bus so long as it helps their party in the end. But that's not anything new, really...
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 2:35 pm

happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
jack:
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

My problem with this is that it is being framed as a racial issue when, in fact, it is nothing of the kind (unless we accept the premise, as you apparently do, that minorities are incapable of accomplishing that which white folks can accomplish with one hand tied behind their backs).

Please tell me exactly where above in my question that you are ignoring that "it is being framed as a racial issue."
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.


Last edited by edge540 on 5/31/2012, 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 2:40 pm

Heretic wrote:
See, edge? You won't get an answer. I asked that two months ago to no avail (and probably before).

It's quite telling, though. These Constitution loving conservatives have no problem throwing it under the bus so long as it helps their party in the end. But that's not anything new, really...
Yep, trolls have a hard time answering extraordinarily, difficult, tough questions.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 2:45 pm

Heretic wrote:
See, edge? You won't get an answer. I asked that two months ago to no avail (and probably before).

It's quite telling, though. These Constitution loving conservatives have no problem throwing it under the bus so long as it helps their party in the end. But that's not anything new, really...

How is the Constitution being thrown under the bus in this instance?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 2:53 pm

edge540 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
jack:
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

My problem with this is that it is being framed as a racial issue when, in fact, it is nothing of the kind (unless we accept the premise, as you apparently do, that minorities are incapable of accomplishing that which white folks can accomplish with one hand tied behind their backs).

Please tell me exactly where above in my question that you are ignoring that "it is being framed as a racial issue."
Please tell us WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
The premise of this thread from the very beginning did not concern whether these rules are or are not necessary. The premise is, and always has been, that bringing race into this debate is absolute self-serving bullshit.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 3:07 pm

Ah geeeez, I guess we will never get an answer from our resident troll as to WHY there is this need for all these obstacles and "simple rules" given the fact there is absolutely no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

It's fascinating how this need for obstacles and "simple rules" only emanates in Southern red states controlled by republicons.


It's amazing.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 3:22 pm

happy jack wrote:
How is the Constitution being thrown under the bus in this instance?

Let me explain it a different way: The "Obama's comin' for our guns!" threat has been a rallying cry for conservatives through Obama's entire administration despite a lack of similar movement on the subject from this administration, and any change in gun legislation is met with fierce resistance. Yet voting, where people are literally being forced through hoops to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday, with no justification for the changes and no regard for their ability to meet new requirements, is met with a ho-hum "too fucking bad". Meaty...

And this "no ones preventing them from voting" echoes as hollow an argument as when it was used against interracial/gay marriage: "No one's stopping them from getting married... they just have to marry their own race/opposite sex".

happy jack wrote:
The premise is, and always has been, that bringing race into this debate is absolute self-serving bullshit.

It's incidental to the topic. Anything that disproportionally affects the poor disproportionally affects minorities; like it or not, that's American demographics.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 3:57 pm

And btw, this isn't just some shitty voter ID thing. They're purging the rolls... Just deeming people unable to vote based on bad data that (unsurprisingly) disproportionately affects Democratic voters, unless they prove otherwise. This isn't a new universal requirement for voting.

Quote :
Florida law requires voters to be U.S. citizens and live in the state. Florida also does not allow people to vote if they are convicted felons and have not had their civil rights restored.

While Browning said he wanted to double-check the information, he also said that local supervisors should be working with the state to make sure there aren't ineligible voters on the rolls.

"The supervisors - all 67 of them - get ultimate control of who comes on and who comes off," said Browning, the former elections supervisor for Pasco County. "If there are non-U.S. citizens on their rolls, then why aren't they doing something about getting the non U.S. citizens off?"

Ertel, a Republican, said he agrees ineligible voters should be removed but questioned the accuracy of the list. He also said it was given to supervisors already in a serious time crunch because redistricting was forcing them to change precincts and district lines.

"If the list is so easily debunked, it should have been better vetted," Ertel said.

Can't disagree. If they don't care so much about accuracy, I have a hard time believing they're oh so concerned about fixing the problem itself.


Last edited by Heretic on 5/31/2012, 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:06 pm

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
How is the Constitution being thrown under the bus in this instance?

Let me explain it a different way: The "Obama's comin' for our guns!" threat has been a rallying cry for conservatives through Obama's entire administration despite a lack of similar movement on the subject from this administration, and any change in gun legislation is met with fierce resistance. Yet voting, where people are literally being forced through hoops to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday, with no justification for the changes and no regard for their ability to meet new requirements, is met with a ho-hum "too fucking bad". Meaty...

And this "no ones preventing them from voting" echoes as hollow an argument as when it was used against interracial/gay marriage: "No one's stopping them from getting married... they just have to marry their own race/opposite sex".

happy jack wrote:
The premise is, and always has been, that bringing race into this debate is absolute self-serving bullshit.

It's incidental to the topic. Anything that disproportionally affects the poor disproportionally affects minorities; like it or not, that's American demographics.

I can’t quite see why you feel that it is beyond the abilities of those with darker skin to reach into their pockets to produce an ID.
My God, what a hoop to have to jump through.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:09 pm

Heretic wrote:
And btw, this isn't just some shitty voter ID thing. They're purging the rolls... Just deeming people unable to vote based on bad data that (unsurprisingly) disproportionately affects Democratic voters, unless they prove otherwise. This isn't a new universal requirement for voting.
.... and if they had photo IDs, they would have no problem being able to "prove otherwise", would they?
Win - win for the Democrats and minorities, no?
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:12 pm

happy jack wrote:
I can’t quite see why you feel that it is beyond the abilities of those with darker skin to reach into their pockets to produce an ID.

Like I said:

Quote :
Yet voting, where people are literally being forced through hoops to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday, with no justification for the changes and no regard for their ability to meet new requirements, is met with a ho-hum "too fucking bad".
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:25 pm

happy jack wrote:
.... and if they had photo IDs, they would have no problem being able to "prove otherwise", would they?

Doesn't look quite so easy. They have to request a hearing with the Supervisor of Elections to prove their citizenship.

Assuming they have them, too. But I'm sure if they don't you'll be providing them with time off of work, transportation, and any necessary money to get said ID, right?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:33 pm

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
I can’t quite see why you feel that it is beyond the abilities of those with darker skin to reach into their pockets to produce an ID.

Like I said:

Quote :
Yet voting, where people are literally being forced through hoops to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday, with no justification for the changes and no regard for their ability to meet new requirements, is met with a ho-hum "too fucking bad".

Seeing as how you brought up guns in this thread ….
For decades, those attempting to avail themselves of the constitutionally guaranteed protections of our 2nd Amendment have been forced to jump through hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop in order “to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday”. Complaints over infringement upon a bona fide constitutional right have been met not only with “a ho-hum "too fucking bad"”, but with outright hostility as to why anyone would even dare question the hoops, and endless media vilification of those who do. I see you making no fuss whatsoever over that.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 4:36 pm

Heretic wrote:
But I'm sure if they don't you'll be providing them with time off of work, transportation, and any necessary money to get said ID, right?

No.
Why would I?
I would presume that they could take care of those things on their own, as I did.
But, then again, I don't view myself as helpless and incompetent, the way you apparently view minorities.
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 5:07 pm

Seeing as how you brought up guns in this thread ….
For decades, those attempting to avail themselves of the constitutionally guaranteed protections of our 2nd Amendment have been forced to jump through hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop in order “to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday”. Complaints over infringement upon a bona fide constitutional right have been met not only with “a ho-hum "too fucking bad"”, but with outright hostility as to why anyone would even dare question the hoops, and endless media vilification of those who do. I see you making no fuss whatsoever over that.
[/quote]

Same with those who want abortions. See, I knew gun advocates and pro-choice advocates had something in common. Both have had more and more restrictions put on them.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   5/31/2012, 8:58 pm

happy jack wrote:
I would presume that they could take care of those things on their own, as I did.

And there it is. The presumption that everyone has the ability...

happy jack wrote:
But, then again, I don't view myself as helpless and incompetent, the way you apparently view minorities.

This has nothing to do with race, remember? No, the poor do not have the same access to do so as we do. That's what makes them poor. And those IDs cost money, making it a de facto poll tax and unconstitutional.

happy jack wrote:
Seeing as how you brought up guns in this thread ….
For decades, those attempting to avail themselves of the constitutionally guaranteed protections of our 2nd Amendment have been forced to jump through hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after hoop in order “to do today what they were legally able to do yesterday”. Complaints over infringement upon a bona fide constitutional right have been met not only with “a ho-hum "too fucking bad"”, but with outright hostility as to why anyone would even dare question the hoops, and endless media vilification of those who do. I see you making no fuss whatsoever over that.

No fuss? Try again; I'm pretty much pro-gun, I just happen to not be an irrational idiot about it. I'm just more careful with arguments for/against gun control where it might be needed because, unlike the phony boogeyman of "voter fraud", guns actually kill people. The arguments for gun control are ultimately trying to save lives, something which can't be said for this unnecessary voter suppression, and that's a small but necessary distinction, IMHO. When such a time comes that casting a ballot has such a direct correlation with... we'll have to come up with a name for it since it doesn't exist... "death by voting booth", then I will reconsider rallying behind your voter suppression tactics.

And speaking of, from your arguments given so far, we can gather you're fully and adamantly opposed to absentee ballots then? In most cases there's no photo ID required and in every case no guarantee that the individual filling it out is who they're supposed to be. Assuming, of course, this is an honest concern about the accuracy of the voting process, and not the usual partisan bullshit we've come to expect from you... I haven't lost faith quite yet; I'm still holding out for the former.

But it's all moot though, since the Justice Dept just told Florida to stop:

Justice Department Demands Florida Stop Purging Voter Rolls

Quote :
The Justice Department sent a letter to Florida Secretary of State Ken Detzner Thursday evening demanding the state cease purging its voting rolls because the process it is using has not been cleared under the Voting Rights Act, TPM has learned.

DOJ also said that Florida’s voter roll purge violated the National Voter Registration Act, which stipulates that voter roll maintenance should have ceased 90 days before an election, which given Florida’s August 14 primary, meant May 16.

Five of Florida’s counties are subject to the Voting Rights Act, but the state never sought permission from either the Justice Department or a federal court to implement its voter roll maintenance program. Florida officials said they were trying to remove non-citizens from the voting rolls, but a flawed process led to several U.S. citizens being asked to prove their citizenship status or be kicked off the rolls.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: Holder the Race-Hustler   6/1/2012, 9:02 am

happy jack wrote:
Seeing as how you brought up guns in this thread ….
For decades, those attempting to avail themselves of the constitutionally guaranteed protections of our 2nd Amendment have been forced to jump through hoop after new requirement after hoop after new requirement after over...waaa, waaa, waaa
What a load of crap.

Quote :

Rossen Reports: Anyone can buy guns, no questions asked
Some say it’s a major loophole in the law. At gun stores, you have to get a background check before you can buy a weapon. But online in most states, anyone from law-abiding citizens to dangerous criminals – even terrorists – can get just about any weapon they want, no questions asked. Our hidden camera investigation shows the deals going down in broad daylight, in suburban mall parking lots.
Hundreds of thousands of guns are for sale, on hundreds of websites. We responded and set up meetings at popular shopping malls. We bought everything from a police-grade pistol to a semiautomatic assault rifle. We did it over and over again, even hinting that our buyer is a criminal.

Within 12 hours, we bought eight dangerous guns – even a 50-caliber weapon so powerful it could take down a helicopter.

Remember, at gun stores, background checks are required, but online – nothing. Believe it or not, in most states it’s completely legal.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46316454/ns/today-today_rossen_reports/t/rossen-reports-anyone-can-buy-guns-no-questions-asked/

In case anybody is interested:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/tactical.htm
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