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 'Avoid the Ghetto' app

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 5:42 am

sparks wrote:

Since more white people commit violent crimes than any other race, I don't think this app will be of any use in helping people make "informed" decisions.

Could you cite your sources on this?



sparks wrote:

It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

What sort of misinformation is being spread by this app? Again, please cite some sort of source for that claim.


sparks wrote:

It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

Why do you think a major corporation such as Microsoft would make it their goal to spread misinformation about crime, race, and poverty?
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 8:15 am

happy jack wrote:
Could you cite your sources on this?

Basic crime statistics. While blacks are overrepresented, they don't make up the majority.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 8:24 am

sparks wrote:
It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

While the potential is there for abuse, I find it very difficult to believe that Microsoft would be sinking any money into something so demonstrably racist (but not racist enough to be noticed by their army of lawyers).
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 9:20 am

Heretic wrote:

While the potential is there for abuse
Here's what bothers me and I'll give you a first hand example. I love Apple Fritters and the absolute best ones on the planet are made at at a small donut shop located smack dab in the wild 100's. I have never experienced a problem there nor have I ever heard of one reported by others that frequent the place. Unfortunately,that location would probably show up as a place to avoid based on overall crime in the area,mostly occurring at night when the place isn't even open.


Old Fashioned Donuts
11248 S Michigan Ave
Chicago, IL 60628
(773) 995-7420

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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 10:45 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Could you cite your sources on this?

Basic crime statistics. While blacks are overrepresented, they don't make up the majority.

That I am aware of, but for the purpose of this app, it’s probably not very relevant. I doubt that crimes committed by whites, though more numerous overall, would be sufficiently concentrated into one particular area or areas as to even register on the app’s radar.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 10:47 am

Artie60438 wrote:
Heretic wrote:

While the potential is there for abuse
Here's what bothers me and I'll give you a first hand example. I love Apple Fritters and the absolute best ones on the planet are made at at a small donut shop located smack dab in the wild 100's. I have never experienced a problem there nor have I ever heard of one reported by others that frequent the place. Unfortunately,that location would probably show up as a place to avoid based on overall crime in the area,mostly occurring at night when the place isn't even open.


Old Fashioned Donuts
11248 S Michigan Ave
Chicago, IL 60628
(773) 995-7420

Yeah, it really doesn't matter how many unwitting lost travelers get mugged or killed.
As long as you get your apple fritters, life will be wonderful.
But if you can somehow find a way to actually to think for yourself, you can still get your fritters by simply ignoring the app's advice.
Correct?
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 1:06 pm

Artie60438 wrote:

Here's what bothers me and I'll give you a first hand example. I love Apple Fritters and the absolute best ones on the planet are made at at a small donut shop located smack dab in the wild 100's. I have never experienced a problem there nor have I ever heard of one reported by others that frequent the place. Unfortunately,that location would probably show up as a place to avoid based on overall crime in the area,mostly occurring at night when the place isn't even open.


I'll agree that the occasional local gem will be missed by the app due to an unfortunate location, but that's a far cry from the deliberate "Operation: Get Behind the Darkies" type of bigotry suggested in the article, right?
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 3:49 pm

Heretic wrote:

I'll agree that the occasional local gem will be missed by the app due to an unfortunate location, but that's a far cry from the deliberate "Operation: Get Behind the Darkies" type of bigotry suggested in the article, right?
I'm not saying it's racist but if I owned a small business that produced a good product in an area the app says to avoid I'd be upset.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 4:28 pm

paul87920 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
KarenT wrote:
We could have used it when lost in South Bend looking for a grocery store. We followed garmin directions past a house with four police cars, lights on, parked in front of it. We drove a bit out of the way after getting milk so as not to be taken through that neighborhood again.

That's exactly the type of situation it was designed for.
But, of course, there will always be those idiots who cry 'racist' the first chance they get.

Well, you're in luck. I haven't seen anyone on this forum call it racist.

Yeah. Well I guess you spoke too soon, Paulie..


sparks wrote:
It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

Are you frickin' serious? Is your "belief" based upon anything at all?
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paul87920

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/26/2012, 6:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:
paul87920 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
KarenT wrote:
We could have used it when lost in South Bend looking for a grocery store. We followed garmin directions past a house with four police cars, lights on, parked in front of it. We drove a bit out of the way after getting milk so as not to be taken through that neighborhood again.

That's exactly the type of situation it was designed for.
But, of course, there will always be those idiots who cry 'racist' the first chance they get.

Well, you're in luck. I haven't seen anyone on this forum call it racist.

Yeah. Well I guess you spoke too soon, Paulie..


sparks wrote:
It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

Are you frickin' serious? Is your "belief" based upon anything at all?

That, and let's assume a couple of things here too based on Sparks argument and ask a few of my own questions.

Sparks, what kind of people do you think are going to download this app?

I'm going to assume I know your answer to my previous question. Now, I'm going to ask you if you believe that the typical person would would download that app would frequent that area accidently?

I'm going to make an assumption here to make my point:

Let's say I'm your typical customer of this app. I'm a middle-aged white conservative soccer mom living in a suburban or semi-rural area. I don't tend to stray too far from home as I really lived a sheltered life. My husband works full time and I'm heavily involved in my child's athletics. Well this will be the second or third time young Kerwin has been invited to a tournament in another part of the state, and his dad cannot attend. This year, I will be using the app to avoid bad areas that I am unfamiliar with. The tournament is in Capital City, Statesota. Last year I went to Capital City and got lost. Judging by the dilapidated buildings, older cars, and ethnic people I decided to lock my doors and keep on driving until the area I was in looked safe.

The point being, Sparks that the kind of person that would use this app specifically for stereotyping and discrimination is the kind of person who would do that with or without the app. The app isn't going to cause certain communities to gain or lose any kind of customer because the kind of person who would use this app for those purposes is the kind of person who already discriminates and already wouldn't get out of their car to give a community business. Based on assumptions you've made of course. The person you and the NAACP have described is not the kind of person who would have had some sort of open-minded epiphany if the app didn't exist.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/27/2012, 4:25 am

Paul, I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing: why the hell did you name your son Kerwin?!?!?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/27/2012, 5:52 am

Artie60438 wrote:
Heretic wrote:

I'll agree that the occasional local gem will be missed by the app due to an unfortunate location, but that's a far cry from the deliberate "Operation: Get Behind the Darkies" type of bigotry suggested in the article, right?
I'm not saying it's racist but if I owned a small business that produced a good product in an area the app says to avoid I'd be upset.
If you owned a small business in an area the app says to avoid, odds are that the area would appear to most people to be a good area to avoid just by eyeballing it, app or no app. I don't think there would be any significant business loss, as those already aware of whatever good product you happen to sell would likely continue to patronize your place of business, app or no app. I have a few favorite restaurants located in areas which, to anyone passing by for the first time, would appear to be areas to steer clear of. But that doesn't stop me from continuing to go to those establishments, and no advice from an app would stop me from returning.
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paul87920

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/27/2012, 10:51 pm

happy jack wrote:
Paul, I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing: why the hell did you name your son Kerwin?!?!?

I thought it sounded extremely white. lol
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 4:24 am

paul87920 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
Paul, I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing: why the hell did you name your son Kerwin?!?!?

I thought it sounded extremely white. lol
Racist!!!!
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 8:18 am

paul87920 wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
paul87920 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
KarenT wrote:
We could have used it when lost in South Bend looking for a grocery store. We followed garmin directions past a house with four police cars, lights on, parked in front of it. We drove a bit out of the way after getting milk so as not to be taken through that neighborhood again.

That's exactly the type of situation it was designed for.
But, of course, there will always be those idiots who cry 'racist' the first chance they get.

Well, you're in luck. I haven't seen anyone on this forum call it racist.

Yeah. Well I guess you spoke too soon, Paulie..


sparks wrote:
It will continue to spread misinformation about crime, race and poverty, which I believe is the goal of the app.

Are you frickin' serious? Is your "belief" based upon anything at all?

That, and let's assume a couple of things here too based on Sparks argument and ask a few of my own questions.

Sparks, what kind of people do you think are going to download this app?

I'm going to assume I know your answer to my previous question. Now, I'm going to ask you if you believe that the typical person would would download that app would frequent that area accidently?

I'm going to make an assumption here to make my point:

Let's say I'm your typical customer of this app. I'm a middle-aged white conservative soccer mom living in a suburban or semi-rural area. I don't tend to stray too far from home as I really lived a sheltered life. My husband works full time and I'm heavily involved in my child's athletics. Well this will be the second or third time young Kerwin has been invited to a tournament in another part of the state, and his dad cannot attend. This year, I will be using the app to avoid bad areas that I am unfamiliar with. The tournament is in Capital City, Statesota. Last year I went to Capital City and got lost. Judging by the dilapidated buildings, older cars, and ethnic people I decided to lock my doors and keep on driving until the area I was in looked safe.

The point being, Sparks that the kind of person that would use this app specifically for stereotyping and discrimination is the kind of person who would do that with or without the app. The app isn't going to cause certain communities to gain or lose any kind of customer because the kind of person who would use this app for those purposes is the kind of person who already discriminates and already wouldn't get out of their car to give a community business. Based on assumptions you've made of course. The person you and the NAACP have described is not the kind of person who would have had some sort of open-minded epiphany if the app didn't exist.
My point is that any soccer mom who is using the "avoid the ghetto app" to protect her family is doing so because of her ignorance of the risks involved. In the period from 2000-2009, there were 163,068 murders in the US according to the FBI. Among the victims, 90% were male. So approximately 16,000 victims were female. In the same period, 379,000 Americans died in traffic accidents. Your soccer mom is at least 20 times more likely to be killed in a traffic accident than to become a victim of a violent crime. I would contend that instead of buying an app that will do little to protect her family, her money is better spent buying a Volvo or taking public transportation.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 8:36 am

sparks wrote:
My point is that any soccer mom who is using the "avoid the ghetto app" to protect her family is doing so because of her ignorance of the risks involved.

All true, but that just makes the app one of the million or so things available in our commercial market that would be rendered obsolete with just a bit more general education. I still don't find this to be particularly controversial or racist.
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chuckmo48

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 9:09 am

Heretic wrote:
All true, but that just makes the app one of the million or so things available in our commercial market that would be rendered obsolete with just a bit more general education. I still don't find this to be particularly controversial or racist.

You are right...there are apps out there for people that have no common sense...I don't care what they develop; if people don't purchase them they will not be relevant...
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 9:28 am

sparks wrote:
My point is that any soccer mom who is using the "avoid the ghetto app" to protect her family is doing so because of her ignorance of the risks involved. In the period from 2000-2009, there were 163,068 murders in the US according to the FBI. Among the victims, 90% were male. So approximately 16,000 victims were female.

All well and good, but why not do what she can to prevent herself from becoming Female Victim #16,001?

sparks wrote:
In the same period, 379,000 Americans died in traffic accidents. Your soccer mom is at least 20 times more likely to be killed in a traffic accident than to become a victim of a violent crime.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that I’m 20 times more likely to die in a traffic accident than in a house fire. Would you be advising me against installing smoke detectors in my home?

sparks wrote:
I would contend that instead of buying an app that will do little to protect her family, her money is better spent buying a Volvo or taking public transportation.

If she can get a Volvo for the same price as this app, please let me know where she shops. (Incidentally, is it true that Volvos are accident-proof?)
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sparks



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PostSubject: Re: 'Avoid the Ghetto' app   1/28/2012, 2:11 pm

Heretic wrote:
sparks wrote:
My point is that any soccer mom who is using the "avoid the ghetto app" to protect her family is doing so because of her ignorance of the risks involved.

All true, but that just makes the app one of the million or so things available in our commercial market that would be rendered obsolete with just a bit more general education. I still don't find this to be particularly controversial or racist.
I'm not very optimistic about the future of education when legislators in Indiana and several other states are considering passing bills allowing creationism to be taught in schools.
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