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 LEED certification of Centennial park

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sparks



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PostSubject: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 8:48 am

I have started this topic here instead of taking a different topic off-topic.
LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
My wife and I went there today for lunch. It is a casual restaurant with a limited menu. The entire west wall is constructed of windows that look over the lake,trails and amphitheater. The restaurant is non-smoking. A couple salads, two soups, four burger selections and half a dozen other sandwiches are available.If you go to Munster's website you can view the menu. They serve beer but no wine or mixed drinks. The food we had was tasty and a good value. I am impressed with the great job Munster did in planning and building this park. Both the park and the restaurant are a nice addition to NW Indiana. An interesting side note is that this is one of the first buildings in NW IN to be built as a LEED certified building. LEED Certification means the building is more environmentally friendly and more energy efficient than conventional buildings. It's good to see that Munster recognizes how important it is to factor efficiency into the design of their public buildings.
While your "marginal" knowledge of LEEDS Certification is admirable, please note that the LEEDS Certified restaurant built on top of a mound of disposable diapers, styrofoam cups, and plastic water bottles is a true oxymoron. Munster, in it's infinite wisdom, like the rest of the Federal Government, hides the garbage dump instead of developing a valuable resource from it, in the form of fuel to power our cars and homes. The cellulose from the rotting garbage beneath your feet can and has been converted to fuel. But then we all like to hang plaques in the lobbies of our buildings.
After reading your post, I have to wonder what your intent is here? Are you trying to show how little you know about LEED,which stands for (Leadership in energy and environmental design)? LEED certification is a system which evaluates new construction on it's energy efficiency and environmental impact. Since the Centennial park
and golf course was built on a garbage dump, it was awarded points for reusing an environmentally degraded property. Centennial Park also has two microturbines which burn the methane generated from the former dump
and provides all the electrical power needs for the site. The town of Munster is also accepting bids for 11 more microturbines to be installed on the site which will provide electricity that can be sold, providing revenue to the town and lowering our reliance on the coal-fired electricity Nipsco currently provides. The town of Munster worked very hard with the architects to design a park which is an asset to Munster and is also an innovative use of a former landfill. I believe that it will win awards for what it has accomplished with that site.For you to claim that the LEED plaque is just something to hang on the wall simply shows your lack of knowledge about the subject.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 11:26 am

sparks wrote:
I have started this topic here instead of taking a different topic off-topic.
LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
My wife and I went there today for lunch. It is a casual restaurant with a limited menu. The entire west wall is constructed of windows that look over the lake,trails and amphitheater. The restaurant is non-smoking. A couple salads, two soups, four burger selections and half a dozen other sandwiches are available.If you go to Munster's website you can view the menu. They serve beer but no wine or mixed drinks. The food we had was tasty and a good value. I am impressed with the great job Munster did in planning and building this park. Both the park and the restaurant are a nice addition to NW Indiana. An interesting side note is that this is one of the first buildings in NW IN to be built as a LEED certified building. LEED Certification means the building is more environmentally friendly and more energy efficient than conventional buildings. It's good to see that Munster recognizes how important it is to factor efficiency into the design of their public buildings.
While your "marginal" knowledge of LEEDS Certification is admirable, please note that the LEEDS Certified restaurant built on top of a mound of disposable diapers, styrofoam cups, and plastic water bottles is a true oxymoron. Munster, in it's infinite wisdom, like the rest of the Federal Government, hides the garbage dump instead of developing a valuable resource from it, in the form of fuel to power our cars and homes. The cellulose from the rotting garbage beneath your feet can and has been converted to fuel. But then we all like to hang plaques in the lobbies of our buildings.
After reading your post, I have to wonder what your intent is here? Are you trying to show how little you know about LEED,which stands for (Leadership in energy and environmental design)? LEED certification is a system which evaluates new construction on it's energy efficiency and environmental impact. Since the Centennial park
and golf course was built on a garbage dump, it was awarded points for reusing an environmentally degraded property. Centennial Park also has two microturbines which burn the methane generated from the former dump
and provides all the electrical power needs for the site. The town of Munster is also accepting bids for 11 more microturbines to be installed on the site which will provide electricity that can be sold, providing revenue to the town and lowering our reliance on the coal-fired electricity Nipsco currently provides. The town of Munster worked very hard with the architects to design a park which is an asset to Munster and is also an innovative use of a former landfill. I believe that it will win awards for what it has accomplished with that site.For you to claim that the LEED plaque is just something to hang on the wall simply shows your lack of knowledge about the subject.
I've been to at least 20 LEEDS seminars in the past three years for Continuing Education. You cannot tell me anything that I don't know about it. Albeit it is a start in the right direction, but, it is also a huge cash cow, especially concerning Federal grants.

Oh, and for your information, LEEDS also applies to existing buildings.
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sparks



Posts : 2186

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 11:54 am

LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
I have started this topic here instead of taking a different topic off-topic.
LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
My wife and I went there today for lunch. It is a casual restaurant with a limited menu. The entire west wall is constructed of windows that look over the lake,trails and amphitheater. The restaurant is non-smoking. A couple salads, two soups, four burger selections and half a dozen other sandwiches are available.If you go to Munster's website you can view the menu. They serve beer but no wine or mixed drinks. The food we had was tasty and a good value. I am impressed with the great job Munster did in planning and building this park. Both the park and the restaurant are a nice addition to NW Indiana. An interesting side note is that this is one of the first buildings in NW IN to be built as a LEED certified building. LEED Certification means the building is more environmentally friendly and more energy efficient than conventional buildings. It's good to see that Munster recognizes how important it is to factor efficiency into the design of their public buildings.
While your "marginal" knowledge of LEEDS Certification is admirable, please note that the LEEDS Certified restaurant built on top of a mound of disposable diapers, styrofoam cups, and plastic water bottles is a true oxymoron. Munster, in it's infinite wisdom, like the rest of the Federal Government, hides the garbage dump instead of developing a valuable resource from it, in the form of fuel to power our cars and homes. The cellulose from the rotting garbage beneath your feet can and has been converted to fuel. But then we all like to hang plaques in the lobbies of our buildings.
After reading your post, I have to wonder what your intent is here? Are you trying to show how little you know about LEED,which stands for (Leadership in energy and environmental design)? LEED certification is a system which evaluates new construction on it's energy efficiency and environmental impact. Since the Centennial park
and golf course was built on a garbage dump, it was awarded points for reusing an environmentally degraded property. Centennial Park also has two microturbines which burn the methane generated from the former dump
and provides all the electrical power needs for the site. The town of Munster is also accepting bids for 11 more microturbines to be installed on the site which will provide electricity that can be sold, providing revenue to the town and lowering our reliance on the coal-fired electricity Nipsco currently provides. The town of Munster worked very hard with the architects to design a park which is an asset to Munster and is also an innovative use of a former landfill. I believe that it will win awards for what it has accomplished with that site.For you to claim that the LEED plaque is just something to hang on the wall simply shows your lack of knowledge about the subject.
I've been to at least 20 LEEDS seminars in the past three years for Continuing Education. You cannot tell me anything that I don't know about it. Albeit it is a start in the right direction, but, it is also a huge cash cow, especially concerning Federal grants.

Oh, and for your information, LEEDS also applies to existing buildings.
If you are so knowledgeable about LEED, why weren't you aware that Centennial Park already has microturbines generating power? My friends who have their LEED certification are interested in the local projects which are being built to those standards. They read the newspaper articles about them and visit the buildings. In NW Indiana,there are only a few at the present time. Do you have any links to back up your claim that the LEED program is a "Cash Cow" as you call it? Everything I have read tells me that if you invest 5% to 20% more upfront to make a building energy efficient, the lower operating costs pay back that cost several times over during the lifespan of the building.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 12:00 pm

sparks wrote:
If you are so knowledgeable about LEED, why weren't you aware that Centennial Park already has microturbines generating power? My friends who have their LEED certification are interested in the local projects which are being built to those standards. They read the newspaper articles about them and visit the buildings. In NW Indiana,there are only a few at the present time. Do you have any links to back up your claim that the LEED program is a "Cash Cow" as you call it? Everything I have read tells me that if you invest 5% to 20% more upfront to make a building energy efficient, the lower operating costs pay back that cost several times over during the lifespan of the building.
The "cash cow" aspect applies to the Federal grants and the abuse they develop. You can fill out an application, and pretty much be accepted.

And I am not at liberty to discuss past and present clients.
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sparks



Posts : 2186

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 12:21 pm

LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
If you are so knowledgeable about LEED, why weren't you aware that Centennial Park already has microturbines generating power? My friends who have their LEED certification are interested in the local projects which are being built to those standards. They read the newspaper articles about them and visit the buildings. In NW Indiana,there are only a few at the present time. Do you have any links to back up your claim that the LEED program is a "Cash Cow" as you call it? Everything I have read tells me that if you invest 5% to 20% more upfront to make a building energy efficient, the lower operating costs pay back that cost several times over during the lifespan of the building.
The "cash cow" aspect applies to the Federal grants and the abuse they develop. You can fill out an application, and pretty much be accepted.

And I am not at liberty to discuss past and present clients.
I didn't ask you about any clients. You claim to be knowledgeable about LEED and criticized the Centennial Park project, claiming that they aren't utilizing the methane gas onsite,when they in fact are. I am asking why you have so little knowledge of one of the few LEED certified projects in this area? As I said before, the friends
I have who are LEED certified are aware of the projects being built locally. As for your claim of abuses in Federal grants for LEED certified projects, I have yet to hear of a single example of that. The competition for Federal and state grants is intense and they are not handed out to everyone who applies for them.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/6/2009, 1:27 pm

sparks wrote:
I didn't ask you about any clients. You claim to be knowledgeable about LEED and criticized the Centennial Park project, claiming that they aren't utilizing the methane gas onsite,when they in fact are. I am asking why you have so little knowledge of one of the few LEED certified projects in this area? As I said before, the friends
I have who are LEED certified are aware of the projects being built locally. As for your claim of abuses in Federal grants for LEED certified projects, I have yet to hear of a single example of that. The competition for Federal and state grants is intense and they are not handed out to everyone who applies for them.
In most cases the design, structural aspects, and special equipment costs more than conventional construction. For example, if you have a contractor come in to replace carpeting, and you want the old carpeting recycled, you (the owner or contractor) must pay to have it recycled. Energy savings are just a small part of it. You can actually get LEEDs points by specifying local materials, so that energy is minimized with shipping. LEEDs Certification is a much broader program than you realize.
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sparks



Posts : 2186

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 6:39 am

LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
I didn't ask you about any clients. You claim to be knowledgeable about LEED and criticized the Centennial Park project, claiming that they aren't utilizing the methane gas onsite,when they in fact are. I am asking why you have so little knowledge of one of the few LEED certified projects in this area? As I said before, the friends
I have who are LEED certified are aware of the projects being built locally. As for your claim of abuses in Federal grants for LEED certified projects, I have yet to hear of a single example of that. The competition for Federal and state grants is intense and they are not handed out to everyone who applies for them.
In most cases the design, structural aspects, and special equipment costs more than conventional construction. For example, if you have a contractor come in to replace carpeting, and you want the old carpeting recycled, you (the owner or contractor) must pay to have it recycled. Energy savings are just a small part of it. You can actually get LEEDs points by specifying local materials, so that energy is minimized with shipping. LEEDs Certification is a much broader program than you realize.
I am fully aware of what the LEED certification entails. That is the reason I question your knowledge of the program. Centennial Park received a Silver certification, which means they received from 33 to 38 points out of a possible 69 points. Since it was new construction, your comment about recycling used carpeting is not germain to this discussion. There are two points available in the LEED rating system for diverting 75% of the construction
waste from landfills.Also, under the Materials and Resources category, rapidly renewable resource use qualifies for 1 point, as does certified wood. Recycled content qualifies for one or two points, depending on % of content.
Energy costs are one of the largest costs associated with operating any building. The savings generated by putting more efficient mechanical systems into a building will pay for themselves over time. Looking at the amount of available points that this site offered as a former landfill capable of generating it's own power,I think it easily could have been designed to achieve LEED Gold certification,39-51 points out of 69 possible.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 8:04 am

sparks wrote:
I am fully aware of what the LEED certification entails. That is the reason I question your knowledge of the program. Centennial Park received a Silver certification, which means they received from 33 to 38 points out of a possible 69 points. Since it was new construction, your comment about recycling used carpeting is not germain to this discussion. There are two points available in the LEED rating system for diverting 75% of the construction
waste from landfills.Also, under the Materials and Resources category, rapidly renewable resource use qualifies for 1 point, as does certified wood. Recycled content qualifies for one or two points, depending on % of content.
Energy costs are one of the largest costs associated with operating any building. The savings generated by putting more efficient mechanical systems into a building will pay for themselves over time. Looking at the amount of available points that this site offered as a former landfill capable of generating it's own power,I think it easily could have been designed to achieve LEED Gold certification,39-51 points out of 69 possible.
So it comes down to my original statement: What do we do with the disposable diapers, styrofoam cups, and plastic water bottles, buried beneath the "GREEN PALACE"?
That, is the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 8:09 am

I know nothing about LEED- what is the point of the "points"??
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 8:15 am

Ohhmama wrote:
I know nothing about LEED- what is the point of the "points"??
You can earn "points" for different levels of energy and environmental measures you take when building or rehabbing a building. Federal grant money may be obtained with a successful program. At best, the owner of the building can sleep better at night, and he can display his LEEDs plaque in the lobby of his building.

Don't get me wrong, as sparkles has, it is a step in the right direction, but it is not a solution. We have many years of waste and landfill crap to get rid of first. And like Munster, the Town of Integrity, green buildings are priority over flood protection.
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UrRight



Posts : 3993

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 1:01 pm

Sparks, never underestimate the power of a woman. I gather that Lois is taking about LEEDS but, it leads to the evaporation of stench coming up through the floor boards.

No thanks...I don't want to eat on top of a landfill. Very Happy
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 1:06 pm

Ohhmama wrote:
I know nothing about LEED- what is the point of the "points"??

You get extra points when less of the seapage and toxic substances don't evaporate under your table while you are dining on smoke chub they retrived before they built on the landfill. Simple, ma.

You get a brass plaque if it can kill you. You get silver if it half-way kills ya...You get GOLD when you don't die from it. :bball:
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 2:18 pm

UrRight wrote:

You get a brass plaque if it can kill you. You get silver if it half-way kills ya...You get GOLD when you don't die from it. :bball:

Ur too funny!
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 2:58 pm

anyone have a link to information about the leeds program?
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UrRight



Posts : 3993

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 3:03 pm

Bill B wrote:
anyone have a link to information about the leeds program?

No, but I have one that leads to the leaks program, you want that one, Bill?
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UrRight



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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 3:05 pm

Give me a chance to tap one of my consultants.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 3:56 pm

Bill B wrote:
anyone have a link to information about the leeds program?

I googled and found this... hope it was what you were lookin' fer..

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CategoryID=19
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UrRight



Posts : 3993

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 5:37 pm

Well, that's crazy, ma. I attempted to link to the links and it I was warned about linking to the LEEDS by Acrobat. Whether I trusted it or not.

I'll settle for the fact that my mom had green shag carpeting for so many years in the '70s and so did my friends' parents, that I think we were in the LEED long before its time. I can't figure out the garble.

Perhaps Sparks can explain that site in laymans' terms. For now, I'll settle on the part where we did our share in the '70s putting up green shag carpeting over a crawl space.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 6:01 pm

Ohhmama wrote:
Bill B wrote:
anyone have a link to information about the leeds program?

I googled and found this... hope it was what you were lookin' fer..

http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CategoryID=19
That is THE "Bible" page for the program.....I had no idea so many lay people were interested in this.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 6:02 pm

UrRight wrote:
Well, that's crazy, ma. I attempted to link to the links and it I was warned about linking to the LEEDS by Acrobat. Whether I trusted it or not.

I'll settle for the fact that my mom had green shag carpeting for so many years in the '70s and so did my friends' parents, that I think we were in the LEED long before its time. I can't figure out the garble.

Perhaps Sparks can explain that site in laymans' terms. For now, I'll settle on the part where we did our share in the '70s putting up green shag carpeting over a crawl space.
Yes sparks, tell us what you know about it!
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 6:31 pm

I know this, I hate some of the LEEDS crap available

Waterless Urinals are gross. They smell, and I will NEVER use one again. And the water based chemical that is to dilute the urine, needs to be put in once a week, and most places it seems only put them in once a month

The system where the lights turn off automatically if no one is in the room, well how much energy is used to re-energize those lights when people go in and out all day long? And don't get me going on the places that put them in the bathroom where they set the timer far to short if you need to do a lot of business in the bathroom.

Those new compact bulbs? Better hope you never break one, since they contain bad things.

low flow sinks that are automatic? sorry when I wash my hands, I like to get my hands completely wet, and less water means I need it to run longer to wash my hands, and then to rinse as well.

LEEDS is great for a company, but as far as convenience and saving water/money? I doubt they save very much money in the long run

I have been in buildings where they "rig" things to not work like they should, because it did not work out, yet they can "unrig" at a moments notice if they have to
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 6:40 pm

mike3775 wrote:
I know this, I hate some of the LEEDS crap available

Waterless Urinals are gross. They smell, and I will NEVER use one again. And the water based chemical that is to dilute the urine, needs to be put in once a week, and most places it seems only put them in once a month

The system where the lights turn off automatically if no one is in the room, well how much energy is used to re-energize those lights when people go in and out all day long? And don't get me going on the places that put them in the bathroom where they set the timer far to short if you need to do a lot of business in the bathroom.

Those new compact bulbs? Better hope you never break one, since they contain bad things.

low flow sinks that are automatic? sorry when I wash my hands, I like to get my hands completely wet, and less water means I need it to run longer to wash my hands, and then to rinse as well.

LEEDS is great for a company, but as far as convenience and saving water/money? I doubt they save very much money in the long run

I have been in buildings where they "rig" things to not work like they should, because it did not work out, yet they can "unrig" at a moments notice if they have to
And we all love the water saving toilets.....have to flush twice sometimes three times just to "get the job done".
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/7/2009, 7:47 pm

I know I did not mention them because some places with the highest honor still have older toilets
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sparks



Posts : 2186

PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/8/2009, 6:05 am

mike3775 wrote:
I know this, I hate some of the LEEDS crap available

Waterless Urinals are gross. They smell, and I will NEVER use one again. And the water based chemical that is to dilute the urine, needs to be put in once a week, and most places it seems only put them in once a month

The system where the lights turn off automatically if no one is in the room, well how much energy is used to re-energize those lights when people go in and out all day long? And don't get me going on the places that put them in the bathroom where they set the timer far to short if you need to do a lot of business in the bathroom.

Those new compact bulbs? Better hope you never break one, since they contain bad things.

low flow sinks that are automatic? sorry when I wash my hands, I like to get my hands completely wet, and less water means I need it to run longer to wash my hands, and then to rinse as well.

LEEDS is great for a company, but as far as convenience and saving water/money? I doubt they save very much money in the long run
I have been in buildings where they "rig" things to not work like they should, because it did not work out, yet they can "unrig" at a moments notice if they have to
If you look at the LEED website site, you will how see how much the owners of Abode saved from a retrofit of their headquarters.This is how savvy companies are reacting to increase their profits.Energy retrofits are a win-win situation because they create good jobs in this country,conserve our natural resources and lower pollution.


In its role as property manager, Cushman & Wakefield worked on one of the most successful retrofits to date: the headquarters of the software maker Adobe Systems, which received a platinum LEED-EB rating for its three towers in December 2006. Adobe spent $1.4 million on the project, but earned that back in savings in less than 10 months, the company said. It conducts tours for neighboring high-tech companies and visitors from as far as Japan and China.
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PostSubject: Re: LEED certification of Centennial park   1/8/2009, 8:12 am

sparks wrote:
If you look at the LEED website site, you will how see how much the owners of Abode saved from a retrofit of their headquarters.This is how savvy companies are reacting to increase their profits.Energy retrofits are a win-win situation because they create good jobs in this country,conserve our natural resources and lower pollution.


In its role as property manager, Cushman & Wakefield worked on one of the most successful retrofits to date: the headquarters of the software maker Adobe Systems, which received a platinum LEED-EB rating for its three towers in December 2006. Adobe spent $1.4 million on the project, but earned that back in savings in less than 10 months, the company said. It conducts tours for neighboring high-tech companies and visitors from as far as Japan and China.
Just good for P.R. and advertising. 10 months? Really?
sparks, we are still waiting for you tell us what YOU know about LEEDs.
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