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 Libertarian's vision for American

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sparks



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PostSubject: Libertarian's vision for American   9/13/2011, 8:33 pm

Here is a perfect example of Ron Paul's vision for America. His campaign manager died from pnuemonia at the age of 49 without health insurance. His family is left with $400,000 in unpaid medical bills. Ron, how about telling us again about how your opposition to universal health care makes us "freer"? Free to do what, die from curable diseases because we can't afford to go to the doctor?
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Libertarian-Legacy--Ron-Pa-by-Rob-Kall-080705-175.html
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 6:48 am

I don't see my family ever going without health insurance - too many advantages to having it.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 8:35 am

Quote :
His family is left with $400,000 in unpaid medical bills.

And that's the problem with this "personal responsibility" nonsense. Costs are not limited to the individual...
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 1:34 pm

Heretic wrote:


And that's the problem with this "personal responsibility" nonsense. Costs are not limited to the individual...
Yeah.
Stupid 'personal responsibility'!
Worst
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Ever
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 1:41 pm

How is it "personal responsibility" if his family suffers through no actions of their own?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 1:47 pm

Heretic wrote:
How is it "personal responsibility" if his family suffers through no actions of their own?
The family is suffering not because of Kent Snyder's acceptance of personal responsibility, but rather due to his lack of said virtue.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 2:05 pm

So you're saying he should have had insurance?
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 2:09 pm

Heretic wrote:
So you're saying he should have had insurance?
It's really not up to me to tell Mr. Snyder what he should or shouldn't have had.
Myself, I have insurance so that my family does not find itself in such a position.
Again, that "personal responsibility nonsense".
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 4:59 pm

happy jack wrote:
It's really not up to me to tell Mr. Snyder what he should or shouldn't have had.

But I'm guessing you can recognize which one would be the responsible choice.

happy jack wrote:
Myself, I have insurance so that my family does not find itself in such a position.

Lucky you. Not all Americans have that luxury, unfortunately.

happy jack wrote:
Again, that "personal responsibility nonsense".

Suffer the children for the sins of the father; how very Christian. Enjoy poverty, kids.
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KarenT



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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 5:13 pm

I don't consider insurance a luxury. Now - cable/dish TV, several cell phones, getting your nails done - those are luxuries. I know people who have all those, but don't buy socks for their kids. Guess it just comes down to priorities.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 5:32 pm

Heretic wrote:


happy jack wrote:
Again, that "personal responsibility nonsense".

Suffer the children for the sins of the father; how very Christian. Enjoy poverty, kids.
No, Heretic - I practice personal responsibility so that my children don't have to "enjoy poverty".
Apparently you have a different understanding of the concept.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/14/2011, 10:24 pm

happy jack wrote:
No, Heretic - I practice personal responsibility so that my children don't have to "enjoy poverty".

Lucky for them. However, not everyone makes such a responsible choice or has the ability/resources to do so, and their family suffers regardless of their choice in the matter.

Like I said at the beginning, costs are not limited to the individual, but apparently you have a different understanding of the concept.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/15/2011, 10:40 am

Heretic wrote:
happy jack wrote:
No, Heretic - I practice personal responsibility so that my children don't have to "enjoy poverty".

Lucky for them. However, not everyone makes such a responsible choice or has the ability/resources to do so, and their family suffers regardless of their choice in the matter.

Which brings us around again as to why personal responsibility is a good thing, not an object of ridicule, and not, as you said, nonsense.
Heretic wrote:


And that's the problem with this "personal responsibility" nonsense. Costs are not limited to the individual...
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/15/2011, 3:39 pm

Yeah Well while I can't be absolutely certain what Heretic meant, I'll go out on a limb and try to explain what I think his point is...

Let's just set aside the ability/resources question for a moment (even though that's the most important issue here, at least IMHO) and pretend that it's simply a question of "personal responsibility." Now, for argument's sake, let's say that a parent is not "responsible."

Should his family suffer as a result? Exactly how is the rest of the family "personally responsible?"

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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/16/2011, 2:13 am

Yes, that's exactly it. The "personal responsibility" argument doesn't actually do anything. "Things would be great if everyone in the world was responsible and behaved better than they have in the history of ever." It's useless, pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. It's a no brainer that doesn't even attempt to address the issues.

We all know this; it's why we have actual laws against murder, stealing, etc., rather than simply citing "personal responsibility" and hoping everyone behaves accordingly.

I don't know... This whole " the poor/uninsured" mentality that's becoming so prevalent just really irks me, especially when it comes from those who in the same breath proclaim this to be a Christian nation. With so many people without access to healthcare, so many that opt for food and housing instead of, we really should be able to do better than "Sucks to be you. Enjoy cancer, dick."
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: Libertarian's vision for American   9/16/2011, 11:27 am

Heretic wrote:
Yes, that's exactly it. The "personal responsibility" argument doesn't actually do anything. "Things would be great if everyone in the world was responsible and behaved better than they have in the history of ever." It's useless, pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. It's a no brainer that doesn't even attempt to address the issues.

We all know this; it's why we have actual laws against murder, stealing, etc., rather than simply citing "personal responsibility" and hoping everyone behaves accordingly.

I don't know... This whole " the poor/uninsured" mentality that's becoming so prevalent just really irks me, especially when it comes from those who in the same breath proclaim this to be a Christian nation. With so many people without access to healthcare, so many that opt for food and housing instead of, we really should be able to do better than "Sucks to be you. Enjoy cancer, dick."

Of course actual laws against murder, stealing, etc. do not and will not ever stop murder, stealing, etc.. And preaching personal responsibility is no guarantee that everyone will begin to practice it, but I can’t think of a better jumping-off point or a better step in the right direction. Can you?
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