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 Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez

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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/23/2010, 12:56 am

Heretic wrote:
UrRight wrote:
Why is it taking technology so long in this country? It's been a whole month now.

Science as salvation happens when it is possible, not needed. Research and development, manufacturing, transportation and deployment... We've never handled anything of this magnitude before, let alone at this depth; they've had to start from scratch. There are no quick fixes.

Envirnomnetal hazards are best dealt with before they happen.

Which is precisely why we should not expand off shore drilling until the day comes that we are technologically advanced enough to do so safely. There must be multiple, redundant safeguards to prevent a disaster like this from ever occurring. And if the worst happens in spite of those redundant systems, there must be multiple, redundant methods to quickly stop such a leak.

If we can't guarantee that an accident like this will never happen again, then we shouldn't be drilling deep water wells, period.

Congressman Markey summed it up nicely this week when he was questioning the CEO of BP. He said that the American people have a right to expect that an oil company that is engaged in deep water drilling has the kind of technological expertise in place that is reminiscent of the "Apollo Project," not "Project Runway."
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/23/2010, 7:20 am

Once again profits come before safety Evil or Very Mad
Documents show BP chose a less-expensive, less-reliable method for completing well in Gulf oil spill
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/23/2010, 8:18 pm

What Obama is doing about the BP oil spill
Quote :
One easy way to see what the US government is doing to coordinate its response to the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill is by looking at the e Joint Information Center Twitter account. For those who are so busy complaining about the lack of responsiveness, it might be helpful to see what is actually being done and the number of coordinated federal, state, and local responses in coordination with businesses, media, and residents of the area.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/25/2010, 11:36 am

Philippe Cousteau Jr. and Sam Champion take hazmat dive into Gulf's oily waters. What you'll see at 1:30 into it will make you sick. It takes a while to load.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/diving-gulfs-toxic-soup-10735329
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/25/2010, 2:14 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
Philippe Cousteau Jr. and Sam Champion take hazmat dive into Gulf's oily waters. What you'll see at 1:30 into it will make you sick. It takes a while to load.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/diving-gulfs-toxic-soup-10735329

Yeah, I saw it this morning. This whole situation is a frickin' nightmare.

BTW - I read an Op-Ed piece yesterday written by Peter Dau that is definitely worth a read...

The Great Shame: America's Pathetic Response to the Gulf Catastrophe

Some excerpts...

Quote :
f all the wrongheaded ideas proudly trumpeted by America's right, anti-environmentalism occupies a unique position: it is at once the most devoid of a rational or moral foundation and the most dangerous. It is selfish, crass, illogical, willfully blind, a denial of the undeniable reality that humans are pillaging irreplaceable natural resources and spewing filth into the air and water and soil at unsustainable rates. Green-bashers stubbornly negate what is directly before them. There is no moral imperative underlying their belief (or lack thereof). It's about unbridled hostility at the suggestion that we must all make shared sacrifices. It's about refusing to acknowledge that the environmental movement has been right to sound the alarm.

Quote :
The Gulf disaster is a singular moment - an opportunity to bring the human race together to save itself, to protect its only home. This should be a rocket-boost for the environmental movement, a time to finally put to rest the notion that environmentalists are misguided alarmists, a chance to finally marginalize green-bashers and put an end to their fatal obstructionism.

We better start to "wise up" as a result of this crisis. We cannot continue to rape and pillage our planet. Symbolic gestures like "boycotting BP" are not enough. The human race can't afford to continue to get energy solely from fossil fuels. We can't continue to have ridiculous debates about whether climate change is occurring, and all the while, the global population continues growing at an unsustainable rate.

If we don't change our ways, then in the not too distant future, our civilization is going to collapse.

I just hope that we don't take the entire planet down with us.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/26/2010, 12:23 pm

Here's an interesting article that talks about this incident in terms of peak oil:

Quote :
Oil Shocks

In an immediate sense, the causes of the catastrophe are technical. Apparently, the Deepwater Horizon well was inadequately sealed, and natural gas built up inside it. When workers on the rig tried to activate the well’s blowout preventer, it failed. An attempt to activate the blowout preventer after the fact, using undersea robots, also proved unsuccessful. Another effort to cap the leak, by using what amounted to a hundred-ton steel funnel, flopped as well. Last week, BP finally succeeded in inserting a mile-long tube into the riser leading from the well. The company said that it was capturing a thousand barrels of oil a day, which is what it originally claimed that the well was leaking; nevertheless, crude continued to pour into the Gulf. (In a recent column in the Miami Herald, the author Carl Hiaasen joked that BP’s next move would be to try to seal the well with thousands of tons of instant oatmeal.)

But the real causes of the disaster go, as it were, much deeper. Having consumed most of the world’s readily accessible oil, we are now compelled to look for fuel in ever more remote places, and to extract it in ever riskier and more damaging ways. The Deepwater Horizon well was being drilled in five thousand feet of water, to a total depth of eighteen thousand feet. (By contrast, the Santa Barbara well was drilled in less than two hundred feet of water, to a total depth of thirty-five hundred feet.) While the point of “peak oil” may or may not have been reached, what Michael Klare, a professor at Hampshire College, has dubbed the Age of Tough Oil has clearly begun. This year, the United States’ largest single source of imported oil is expected to be the Canadian tar sands. Oil from the tar sands comes in what is essentially a solid form: it has to be either strip-mined, a process that leaves behind a devastated landscape, or melted out of the earth using vast quantities of natural gas.

Tar sands. An extraction process so energy intensive they were considering building a nuclear reactor for it.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/31/2010, 12:01 am

Here's some interesting news...



It's a damn shame that it took a catastrophic tragedy to cause Americans to come to their senses, but this is quite a dramatic shift in public opinion.

Quote :
The new results are based on a May 24-25 USA Today/Gallup poll. In March, by 50% to 43%, Americans said it was more important to develop U.S. energy supplies than to protect the environment, continuing a trend in the direction of energy production seen since 2007. Now, the majority favor environmental protection, by 55% to 39% -- the second-largest percentage (behind the 58% in 2007) favoring the environment in the 10-year history of the question.

IIRC, I predicted this kind of shift in opinion roughly a month ago, and it now appears that I was correct, doesn't it?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/137882/Oil-Spill-Alters-Views-Environmental-Protection.aspx


.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/31/2010, 2:03 am

The conservative response to this has been interesting. How does calling this "Obama's Katrina" actually benefit Republicans? Isn't that an implicit acknowledgment of Dubya's epic failure? I don't even see how they compare. In the former, we have a specific warnings prior to the event ignored and certainly not enough done afterwards. Are we really supposed to believe that's the same situation we're in now? The same level of forewarning and neglect? And of course the cries that he "do something"... Once again, we find that it's actually Republicans who believe the President is an all powerful magical fairy. He can manifest the necessary technology to fix this with a mere blink and a nod, right?

I don't know... Just starting thinking about how disconnected they still are from reality after reading this:

Quote :
Big Oil's Fairy Tale

When I was shaving this morning, my daughter came up to me and asked, “Daddy, when is President Obama going to develop a coherent narrative for his administration?” OK, maybe not. She’s only 3, and her typical question is more along the lines of, “Can we play hide and seek?”

The president isn’t hiding, but I’m not certain that he is seeking, either. At the end of his buck-stops-here press conference on Thursday, he told a story about how he’d been shaving that morning when his 11-year-old daughter asked, “Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?”

It’s an odd question, since of all the things the most powerful man in the world has control over, plugging the oil leak in the Gulf isn’t one of them. The federal government simply lacks the relevant equipment to address a volcano of oil one mile below the ocean. I would have thought that the president might have explained that to his daughter at some point. Apparently not.

Sure, no father wants to tell his child that he can’t solve the biggest problem around, but the fact is that the oil companies are the only ones who do this kind of risky drilling — and the only ones who have the technology to stop it.

But it’s also true that Big Oil has spent years deluding itself and others into thinking that this kind of spill was impossible and that preparing for one wasn’t necessary. Indeed, BP once called a blowout disaster “inconceivable.” Certainly, if you can’t conceive of a disaster, you’ll become more and more lax, more and more reckless, until one happens. You’ll cut corners on backup systems and testing. And you certainly won’t pre-build and pre-position any relevant equipment for staunching the flow. Since a disaster can’t happen, you and your allies in Congress will block all serious safeguards and demagogue all efforts to oversee the industry as “Big Government interference in the marketplace that will raise the price of gasoline for average Americans.”

The administration has made some efforts to push back against Big Oil. In February 2009, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar canceled 77 oil and gas lease sales on Western lands that had been approved in the last days of the Bush administration as a final gift to Big Oil. The leases were for land near pristine places like Arches National Park and Dinosaur National Monument. As a result, Sens. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, and Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, blocked the confirmation of David Hayes, Obama’s choice to be deputy interior secretary, for two months. Hayes was on the scene on the second day of the Gulf disaster and has been a key figure helping to oversee the effort.

I suppose one can construct a scenario where the administration managed to prevent BP from drilling this well in the first place — a mere two months after taking office and while Republicans were scheming to obstruct and block its moves. Short of that, though, it’s clear that the blame for the disaster rests with BP, Big Oil, the Bush-Cheney administration (which larded the government with Big Oil stooges), and the industry’s strong-arm supporters in Congress (which enacted the voluntary, “trust us,” self-regulation we have today).

Any word on the latest attempt to fix it? "Top Kill" or whatever it's called.... I've only seen conflicting reports. No one seems to know for sure.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/31/2010, 9:00 am

Heretic wrote:
The conservative response to this has been interesting. How does calling this "Obama's Katrina" actually benefit Republicans? Isn't that an implicit acknowledgment of Dubya's epic failure? I don't even see how they compare. In the former, we have a specific warnings prior to the event ignored and certainly not enough done afterwards. Are we really supposed to believe that's the same situation we're in now? The same level of forewarning and neglect? And of course the cries that he "do something"... Once again, we find that it's actually Republicans who believe the President is an all powerful magical fairy. He can manifest the necessary technology to fix this with a mere blink and a nod, right?
John Stewart did a bit on exactly what you describe. The comparisons start about 5 minutes into the clip.
The Daily Show With Jon StewartMon - Thurs 11p / 10c
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   5/31/2010, 5:45 pm

Heretic wrote:
Any word on the latest attempt to fix it? "Top Kill" or whatever it's called.... I've only seen conflicting reports. No one seems to know for sure.

"Top Kill" and "Junk Shot" failed...

BP Prepares to Take New Tack on Leak After ‘Top Kill’ Fails

Quote :
In another serious setback in the effort to stem the flow of oil gushing from a well a mile beneath the Gulf of Mexico, BP engineers said Saturday that the “top kill” technique had failed and, after consultation with government officials, they had decided to move on to another strategy.

Doug Suttles, BP’s chief operating officer for exploration and production, said at a news conference that the engineers would try once again to solve the problem with a containment cap and that it could take four to seven days for the device to be in place.

It's looking more and more like we're going to have to wait for the relief well in August before this thing gets stopped. If it takes that long, then the environmental damage will be truly "biblical."
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/3/2010, 10:34 pm

Incredible Evil or Very Mad These two clowns don't even have the decency to wait until it's fixed....
Jindal to Obama: Cancel the moratorium on new deepwater drilling!
by Jed Lewison
Thu Jun 03, 2010 at 11:18:04 AM PDT

Bobby Jindal has officially jumped the shark:

Quote :
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal wrote President Obama a letter on Wednesday criticizing his decision to implement a temporary moratorium of deepwater drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

Arguing that his state had already suffered crippling economic consequences, the Louisiana Republican urged Obama to rethink his decision to suspend activity at 33 previously permitted deepwater drilling rigs -- including 22 "currently in operation off the Louisiana coast."

Joining Jindal in his call to lift the moratorium is Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) who accused the Obama administration of pursuing a policy that "could kill thousands of Louisiana jobs."
If you ever had any doubts about whether Jindal's attacks on Obama were merely attempts to redirect anger towards government and away from the oil industry, Jindal's letter should make things clear. After weeks of slamming President Obama for failing to wave a magic wand that would make the oil spill go away, Jindal wants to double down on the very policies that allowed this disaster to occur on the first place.

How does anybody take him seriously? He's no better than an oil industry shill.

Update (11:24AM): Fortunately, the Obama administration is paying no heed to Jindal's plea to "drill, baby, drill." In fact, they've extended the ban on new drilling to all water depths, not just deepwater.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/4/2010, 9:35 am

BP To Gov't Last Year: We Can Handle A 300,000 Barrels-Per-Day Spill Just Fine

Quote :
Of all the bad predictions and downright misinformation we've seen surrounding the Gulf oil spill, this one ranks pretty high: BP actually told the government last year that it was prepared to respond to a blowout flowing at 300,000 barrels per day -- as much as 25 times the rate of the current spill.

That assertion came in an Initial Exploration Plan for the well that ultimately blew out, filed with the Minerals Management Service in 2009. BP says in the document that it "has the capability to respond, to the maximum extent practicable, to a worst-case discharge, or a substantial threat of such a discharge, resulting from the activities proposed in our Exploration Plan."

Which ended up being a flat out lie:

Quote :
BP Chief: Company Never Had the Tools to Address Oil Leak

Calling his company’s oil-well blowout in the Gulf a “low-probability, high-impact” episode, BP CEO Tony Hayward conceded this week that the energy giant was ill prepared to handle an accident at the depths being drilled by the Deepwater Horizon when it exploded.

“What is undoubtedly true is that we did not have the tools you would want in your tool-kit,” Hayward told the Financial Times.
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BigFan

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/4/2010, 5:31 pm

You think the assertion would have been verified by the gov't.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/5/2010, 9:47 am

Definitely. One more for the long list of failures from the MMS.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/5/2010, 2:34 pm

Scorpion wrote:

Yeah, well I'm basing my opinion on the "worse case scenario" that looks increasingly likely.

If the worst happens, and I truly pray that it doesn't, then all bets are off. It will be the end to further offshore drilling for decades, at least. Hell, it's even possible that some of the current wells could get shut down.

IMHO, an "epic" disaster will galvanize public opinion to the point that it will be virtually impossible to even consider opening up new areas for drilling. I think that it would be difficult even now. But if we continue to experience an ever increasing release of oil, it will make it impossible for any politician to support the expansion of drilling.


Artie60438 wrote:

It may be the end of expansion of off-shore drilling for a while,but no wells will be shut down unless they are proven to be threats to leak. Sooner or later the drum will start beating again from those on the right.


Just thought it would be interesting to see how our predictions played out, one month later...

You were right about the tone deafness of the right, and it appears that I was correct about the shut down of current deep water wells.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/us/05gulfecon.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fnational%2Findex.jsonp

Quote :
The Interior Department’s six-month moratorium on deep-water drilling most directly affects 17 oil companies, including multinational giants like BP, Exxon Mobil, Shell and Chevron. The order, issued May 27, forced 33 rigs to shut down operations.

Every one of those rigs is serviced out of Port Fourchon, according to Mr. Chiasson, so the drilling ban could end up slashing the incomes of thousands of other workers — from welders and divers to caterers and drivers — who depend on the industry.

While I understand why the drilling ban concerns communities that are impacted economically by the work stoppage, IMHO, it's the right decision. It is clear at this point that we simply cannot risk the possibility of another blowout of a deep water well.

BTW - I was quite pleased with Obama's responses at the press conference a couple of weeks ago. Here is a link to the transcript. if anyone is interested...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-gulf-oil-spill

I was especially struck by the following comment from the President...

Quote :
]I grew up in Hawaii where the ocean is sacred. And when you see birds flying around with oil all over their feathers and turtles dying, that doesn’t just speak to the immediate economic consequences of this; this speaks to how are we caring for this incredible bounty that we have.

I've been active in the environmental movement my entire life, and it was important to me to know that the President "gets it."

Has everybody seen the recent gut wrenching pictures and video of all the helpless sea birds covered in oil and gasping for breath? They are truly haunting images. I wish that I could just look away, but I know that's not going to stop their misery. As time goes by, the carnage is only going to get worse.

At this point, I don't even want to hear about any frickin' resumption of deep water drilling. The pictures of all the wildlife dying are just the tip of the iceberg.

Newsweek has a great article on just how devastating this catastrophe is likely to be... I urge everyone to take some time to read it.

What the Spill Will Kill

Quote :
...the Deepwater Horizon disaster will enter the record books not for how much but for where: an enormous release of crude oil not only onto vulnerable shorelines and fragile marshes but into the largely unexplored depths of the sea. The consequences for the delicate balance of existence in the vulnerable ecosystems of the gulf, and for the vast cycles of nature that sustain life there and beyond, are as incalculable as they are potentially devastating.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/5/2010, 5:29 pm

Scorpion wrote:

Just thought it would be interesting to see how our predictions played out, one month later...

You were right about the tone deafness of the right, and it appears that I was correct about the shut down of current deep water wells.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/us/05gulfecon.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fnational%2Findex.jsonp

Quote :
The Interior Department’s six-month moratorium on deep-water drilling most directly affects 17 oil companies, including multinational giants like BP, Exxon Mobil, Shell and Chevron. The order, issued May 27, forced 33 rigs to shut down operations.

Every one of those rigs is serviced out of Port Fourchon, according to Mr. Chiasson, so the drilling ban could end up slashing the incomes of thousands of other workers — from welders and divers to caterers and drivers — who depend on the industry.

While I understand why the drilling ban concerns communities that are impacted economically by the work stoppage, IMHO, it's the right decision. It is clear at this point that we simply cannot risk the possibility of another blowout of a deep water well.
Knowing what I know now,I totally agree with you on the stoppage of deep water drilling. I always new Big Oil couldn't be trusted but BP has rewritten the definition of untrustworthy.

Quote :
Has everybody seen the recent gut wrenching pictures and video of all the helpless sea birds covered in oil and gasping for breath? They are truly haunting images. I wish that I could just look away, but I know that's not going to stop their misery. As time goes by, the carnage is only going to get worse.
I've never considered myself to be an animal or environmental activist. For example I'd answer "somewhat concerned" on a survey about the environment,but those pictures of the birds suffering are truly heartbreaking. Now I'd answer "very concerned".

Quote :
At this point, I don't even want to hear about any frickin' resumption of deep water drilling. The pictures of all the wildlife dying are just the tip of the iceberg.
Amen[/quote]
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/8/2010, 7:58 pm

Did Anyone Actually Read BP's Oil Spill Response Plan?

Quote :
WASHINGTON - May 25 - BP's official response plan for oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico is studded with patently inaccurate and inapplicable information but was nonetheless approved by the federal government, according to Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). Most notably, the response plan contains no information about how to cope with a deep water blowout but is littered with outright inanities, suggesting that no regulator seriously read it.

The "BP Regional Oil Spill Response Plan - Gulf of Mexico" dated June 30, 2009 covers all of the company's operations in the Gulf, not just the ill-fated Deepwater Horizon. The plan:

* Lists "Sea Lions, Seals, Sea Otters [and] Walruses" as "Sensitive Biological Resources" in the Gulf, suggesting that portions were cribbed from previous Arctic exploratory planning;
* Gives a web site for a Japanese home shopping site as the link to one of its "primary equipment providers for BP in the Gulf of Mexico Region [for]rapid deployment of spill response resources on a 24 hour, 7 days a week basis"; and
* Directs its media spokespeople to never make "promises that property, ecology, or anything else will be restored to normal," implying that BP will only commit candor by omission.

More seriously, the plan does not contain information about tracking sub-surface oil plumes from deepwater blowouts or preventing disease (viruses, bacteria, etc.) transmission to captured animals in rehab facilities, which was found to be a very serious risk following the Exxon Valdez spill. It also lacks any oceanographic or meteorological information, despite the clear relevance of this data to spill response.

"This response plan is not worth the paper it is written on," said PEER Board Member Rick Steiner, a noted marine professor and conservationist who tracked the Exxon Valdez spill, noting that the plan is almost 600 pages largely consisting of lists, phone numbers and blank forms. "Incredibly, this voluminous document never once discusses how to stop a deep water blowout even though BP has significant deep water operations in the Gulf."

The document can be found here.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/9/2010, 12:12 pm

Heretic wrote:
Did Anyone Actually Read BP's Oil Spill Response Plan?

Quote :
WASHINGTON - May 25 - BP's official response plan for oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico is studded with patently inaccurate and inapplicable information but was nonetheless approved by the federal government, according to Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). Most notably, the response plan contains no information about how to cope with a deep water blowout but is littered with outright inanities, suggesting that no regulator seriously read it.

The "BP Regional Oil Spill Response Plan - Gulf of Mexico" dated June 30, 2009 covers all of the company's operations in the Gulf, not just the ill-fated Deepwater Horizon. The plan:

* Lists "Sea Lions, Seals, Sea Otters [and] Walruses" as "Sensitive Biological Resources" in the Gulf, suggesting that portions were cribbed from previous Arctic exploratory planning;
* Gives a web site for a Japanese home shopping site as the link to one of its "primary equipment providers for BP in the Gulf of Mexico Region [for]rapid deployment of spill response resources on a 24 hour, 7 days a week basis"; and
* Directs its media spokespeople to never make "promises that property, ecology, or anything else will be restored to normal," implying that BP will only commit candor by omission.

More seriously, the plan does not contain information about tracking sub-surface oil plumes from deepwater blowouts or preventing disease (viruses, bacteria, etc.) transmission to captured animals in rehab facilities, which was found to be a very serious risk following the Exxon Valdez spill. It also lacks any oceanographic or meteorological information, despite the clear relevance of this data to spill response.

"This response plan is not worth the paper it is written on," said PEER Board Member Rick Steiner, a noted marine professor and conservationist who tracked the Exxon Valdez spill, noting that the plan is almost 600 pages largely consisting of lists, phone numbers and blank forms. "Incredibly, this voluminous document never once discusses how to stop a deep water blowout even though BP has significant deep water operations in the Gulf."

The document can be found here.

Yeah, I saw that "document." What a frickin' joke!

BTW - There's an in-depth article from the June issue of Rolling Stone that examines the regulatory and political climate that spawned this catastrophe. It's definitely worth a read...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0

Quote :
... the disaster in the Gulf will serve as a lasting and ugly reminder of the price we paid for our addiction to oil. "It was a bargain with the devil," says Steiner, the marine scientist who helped lead the response to the Valdez disaster. "And now the devil is gloating."

There is plenty of blame to go around, that much is certain. I expect that more heads will roll before this is over.

Also found this video from NOAA, recorded on April 22nd, that I hadn't seen before...


Hours after BP’s rig sank on April 22nd, a white board in NOAA's "war room" in Seattle displays the administration's initial, worst-case estimate of the spill — 64,000 to 110,000 barrels a day
Photo courtesy of al.com
.


Video shows federal officials knew quickly of potential for massive oil flow in Gulf spill
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/10/2010, 7:43 pm

Bad,bad,really bad news for the "Drill,baby,drill,crowd. Can't wait to see how they respond.....
FL: Huge shift in opinion against offshore drilling
by Jed Lewison
Thu Jun 10, 2010 at 03:40:04 PM PDT
This is an amazing statistic
Quote :
In the wake of the Gulf oil spill, Florida voters oppose 51 - 42 percent increasing the amount of offshore oil drilling, a 48-point swing from the 66 - 27 percent support for drilling in an April 19 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University.
Quote :
That means one out of four voters in Florida has changed their mind about offshore drilling in less than two months.

Numbers like that are staggering. They provide evidence for the idea that voters are now as receptive as they have ever been to the kinds of policies that we need to break our dependence on fossil fuels.

It underscores the urgency with which Democrats and the Obama Administration must proceed enacting energy reform. There has never been a better time to pass legislation that will free us from our oil addiction.
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Scorpion

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/18/2010, 2:54 pm

This is pretty sobering....

Oil Spill Forces Animals To Flee To Shallow Water Off Coast, Scientists Warn Of 'Mass Die-Off"

Quote :
GULF SHORES, Ala. — Dolphins and sharks are showing up in surprisingly shallow water just off the Florida coast. Mullets, crabs, rays and small fish congregate by the thousands off an Alabama pier. Birds covered in oil are crawling deep into marshes, never to be seen again.

Marine scientists studying the effects of the BP disaster are seeing some strange phenomena.

Fish and other wildlife seem to be fleeing the oil out in the Gulf and clustering in cleaner waters along the coast in a trend that some researchers see as a potentially troubling sign.

The animals' presence close to shore means their usual habitat is badly polluted, and the crowding could result in mass die-offs as fish run out of oxygen. Also, the animals could easily be devoured by predators.

"A parallel would be: Why are the wildlife running to the edge of a forest on fire? There will be a lot of fish, sharks, turtles trying to get out of this water they detect is not suitable," said Larry Crowder, a Duke University marine biologist.


A dolphin swims in the Barataria Bay near oil from the Deepwater Horizon spill Wednesday near Grand Isle, La.

There is no escape for all this sea life. These animals are trapped between the oil and the shore.

I'm really starting to run out of words that adequately describe the carnage that is occurring in the Gulf.
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/18/2010, 7:21 pm

Scorpion wrote:
This is pretty sobering....

Oil Spill Forces Animals To Flee To Shallow Water Off Coast, Scientists Warn Of 'Mass Die-Off"

Quote :
GULF SHORES, Ala. — Dolphins and sharks are showing up in surprisingly shallow water just off the Florida coast. Mullets, crabs, rays and small fish congregate by the thousands off an Alabama pier. Birds covered in oil are crawling deep into marshes, never to be seen again.

Marine scientists studying the effects of the BP disaster are seeing some strange phenomena.

Fish and other wildlife seem to be fleeing the oil out in the Gulf and clustering in cleaner waters along the coast in a trend that some researchers see as a potentially troubling sign.

The animals' presence close to shore means their usual habitat is badly polluted, and the crowding could result in mass die-offs as fish run out of oxygen. Also, the animals could easily be devoured by predators.

"A parallel would be: Why are the wildlife running to the edge of a forest on fire? There will be a lot of fish, sharks, turtles trying to get out of this water they detect is not suitable," said Larry Crowder, a Duke University marine biologist.


A dolphin swims in the Barataria Bay near oil from the Deepwater Horizon spill Wednesday near Grand Isle, La.

There is no escape for all this sea life. These animals are trapped between the oil and the shore.

I'm really starting to run out of words that adequately describe the carnage that is occurring in the Gulf.
I couldn't agree more. While most try to fix blame, other seem to feel for the impact this will have on our wildlife for generations to come.
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/19/2010, 7:51 pm

BigWhiteGuy wrote:
While most try to fix blame...

Should we not? I've seen similar objections to assigning blame before but it never made sense there either. How can we ever prevent this from happening again if we refuse to figure out how and why things went wrong? Isn't blame essential to that, especially in terms of legal liability? The usual corporate nonsense has robbed the livelihood of American families for generations. I really, really don't see a problem saying "this is your fault" to those responsible.
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/20/2010, 8:40 am

Heretic wrote:
BigWhiteGuy wrote:
While most try to fix blame...

Should we not? I've seen similar objections to assigning blame before but it never made sense there either. How can we ever prevent this from happening again if we refuse to figure out how and why things went wrong? Isn't blame essential to that, especially in terms of legal liability? The usual corporate nonsense has robbed the livelihood of American families for generations. I really, really don't see a problem saying "this is your fault" to those responsible.
BP is responsible, but so might other companies be, like Transocean and Halliburton that were involved in maintaining or operating the platform. But the net goes much wider, to the franchise gasoline stations and the investors around the world. In fact, the blame goes far beyond even that. It extends to each and every one of us. Anyone who has ever bought a product containing oil is culpable, and the citizens of the US more than most (thanks to their exceptional thirst for gasoline).
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/20/2010, 9:26 am

BigWhiteGuy wrote:
In fact, the blame goes far beyond even that. It extends to each and every one of us. Anyone who has ever bought a product containing oil is culpable, and the citizens of the US more than most (thanks to their exceptional thirst for gasoline).

So goes such a growth-based and unsustainable system as ours. You're beginning to sound like me more and more. Wink Why is it we can't see eye to eye on AGW?
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BigWhiteGuy

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PostSubject: Re: Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez   6/20/2010, 12:06 pm

Heretic wrote:
BigWhiteGuy wrote:
In fact, the blame goes far beyond even that. It extends to each and every one of us. Anyone who has ever bought a product containing oil is culpable, and the citizens of the US more than most (thanks to their exceptional thirst for gasoline).

So goes such a growth-based and unsustainable system as ours. You're beginning to sound like me more and more. Wink Why is it we can't see eye to eye on AGW?
Simple. You consider Climate Change as Anthropogenic Global Warming. I feel there are too many variables to blame 150 years of inaccurate record keeping as a man caused phenomenon. I feel what is transpiring now is cyclic at best. There are just too many people getting rich with anthropogenic recorded and fabricated "facts". There lies the disparage.
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