The Case for a Charter School in Downtown Hammond

I spoke out about this tonight On the "Fowler & the Mailman Show" 6-7PM Mon & Thursday on WJOB 1230....

I want to tell you all about Whitney Young High School in Chicago,Il. Whitney Young is located at 211 S Laflin,about 3 blocks east of the United Center and the old Chicago Stadium. Their situation was very similar to Hammond's present one.

In 1970 plans were started to build it and it was finishd in 1975. That entire area had been devastated by the riots that occurred in 1968 after the shooting of Dr Martin Luthor King. People were against it for many reasons,but mostly because it was going to be in an undesireable neighborhood.

Today that area is a bustling successfull community with nearby condos going for in excess of $300,000. Whitney Young itself is one of the top 3 high schools in Illinois,and in the top 300 nationwide. First Lady Michelle Obama is a graduate.

In June,480 students graduated,including Michael Jordan's son.Each and every graduate is now attending college.

Much has been said today about sex offenders residing nearby in a single room occupancy hotel. Those offenders,despite what some people claim,have no right to live there. They are not property owners,they don't even have a lease. At best they would be entitled to a week or 30 day notice to vacate,depending on their arrangement.

A new school would also automatically bring heightened police presence. The present undesireables that congregate there now won't be too happy about that. They will either be eventually arrested for something or they'll move on somewhere else where they won't be getting hassled.

My final point is that if nothing is built downtown,you'll still be talking about the same problems 5 or 10 years from now. Chicago was able to turn around a blighted neighborhood and there is no reason Hammond can't do the same.

Every statement I made can be documented by googling "Whitney Young High School".

Please feel free to bring up these points the next time you run into one of the chronic naysayers.

It w ill be interesting to hear Karubas's reaction. He is no fan of the Mayor and is definately benefitting from his guest registry being handed out at the department of corrections. Wonder why they cant put them up in one of those munster condos or how about the Mansards!

voter3 wrote:

It w ill be interesting to hear Karubas's reaction. He is no fan of the Mayor and is definately benefitting from his guest registry being handed out at the department of corrections. Wonder why they cant put them up in one of those munster condos or how about the Mansards!

Quote :

When the school is built, the Department of Correction no longer will refer sex offenders to the hotel, Garrison said. For his part, Karubas said he no longer will accept sex offenders at that point.

http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/article_548dcc14-31f5-5bda-acf3-1b2a4841fbb5.html

couldnt say this on air as i promised a source i wouldnt. but the fact is a bike trail runs within the 1000 yards of the hotel currently. a bike trail is designated as a public park. as such those sex offenders currently at the hotel are already in violation of state law.

its funny because preach has been on this issue for what now? six months? he finally got the times do send out a special reporter and get a big headline. and here it takes all of 12 hours for the problem to be completly made moot and fixed.

but its also sad. because if the state is sending folks there...then the state obviously isnt enforcing its own law in this regard. how many offenders have they relocated elsewhere possibly near schools as well?

What would you expect from a Sue Brown article...a complete story. Honestly who allows these stories to hit the front page without some research? and i dont believe Karubas for a second!!

voter3 wrote:

What would you expect from a Sue Brown article...a complete story. Honestly who allows these stories to hit the front page without some research? and i dont believe Karubas for a second!!

Maybe thats why its cheaper to buy their stock than it is to buy their paper !!

The Preacher doesn't know what's going on in the City of Hammond or he would have had the inside scoop on this. The Preacher is completely lost. The Creature is almost gone now. :guillotine:

funniest thing about it is in the paper this morning it says the offenders were notified and started getting kicked out on wednesday.

makes you wonder how the times could have printed its original story on thursday without knowing of or mentioning it. almost seems like a wreckless disregard for the truth...maybe even intentional disregard. the latter being the first requirement for a libel suit!

sadly the preacher is so often wrong that no such suit could possibly be brought against him. as pure idiocy isnt a civil offense.

I don't really see anything here to justify the Hammond charter school.

Passion wrote:

I don't really see anything here to justify the Hammond charter school.

OK,But what would your plan be to revitalize the area?

It was cool to listen to Tom Dabertin, a sponsor of folwer/mailman, put the preacher in his place on the preachers show. Preacher was preachless!!!!

Artie60438 wrote:

Passion wrote:

I don't really see anything here to justify the Hammond charter school.

OK,But what would your plan be to revitalize the area?

That's a sticky question for lots of reasons. But let's just look at one possibility. I think First Baptist Church has plans for downtown. Now personally I am no FBC Hammond fan and wasn't any too happy that they got the old Federal Courthouse property to further their ambitions. That said, I suppose that is 1 way to go.

Second, you need to define borders to the areas of interest and to some extent determine the goals of current property owners within that zone. Again, if you say downtown (without qualification) certainly 1 of the largest land owners again is FBC.

Third, do you truly think a single school will make downtown valuable where it isn't perceived to be now? Again going back to FBC I think I recall that they eventually want to relocate some or all of their schools there, so that would be pre-school through college.

Now all this said about FBC the good news is that none of those ideas cost any taxpayer money outside of perhaps minor infrastructure like moving streets & lighting around & such. However the contribution to the community is questionable at best.

But you are really asking the wrong question. It isn't what else the property can be used for that's important but rather if creating a 2nd school system a good idea overall and all the related debate.

There are conditions where I may favor a charter school but so far I am not behind this particular plan. From what I've heard it sounds more like a safe haven for the best students. For a 2nd school system to succeed where the regular school system doesn't begs the question of why regular school can't be improved. Most people will say it's a small portion of rotten apples, so it stands to reason a better solution may be to remove the bad kids to a special school of their own with self paced curriculum where they can have only themselves to blame for failure and a transient lifestyle will be less of an excuse to act up.

Or looking at it another way what will the charter school or any current SCH plan do to curb problems related to transient families and kids with generally no moral compass? There's the root of the current school problems. Any other approach such as making a charter school to flee to is merely treating the symptoms.

first. i think the charter school is only one part of a much larger long term plan.

second. obviously in itself the charter school wont revitalize the downtown area. however it will add a lot of traffic in the area. probably 400 cars immediately...and 700 in 4 years when it is fully in use. that will leave opportunities for some small businesses to open or expand.

combined with the hospital. the fed building, a potential city hall. and some type of anchor store. all of the sudden you have the makings of the beginnings of a change downtown.

as for fbc. not thier biggest fan either. but you do have to give it to them on this. they keep their buildings up very well and are very detailed on keeping their properties clean. compared to say 5 years ago. state street is much more appealing of an area to drive through today. then the sex shops and vacant store days of not long ago. and that has already changed.

Just 2 thoughts on Oracle's comments. As it is today I'm not so sure downtown is well laid out for even that extra traffic. We know State Line has it's issues. And Hohman has other issues, such as street parking taking out traffic lanes and that wicked curve that only wild rumors about Robert E. Lee being drunk when he surveyed it or something to that effect seems to account for, which I tend to discount as having much truth. This becomes a bigger issue when you have school kids & buses frequenting the general area.

Also, here again we have mention of some mysterious master plan that the powers that be are afraid will not withstand open scrutiny. The problem is this is most likely McDermott's last term as mayor. So who is to say that any expansion of this vision will continue once he moves on? Dedlow had a so-called master plan that kind of came to a point and stopped too.


As for the assessment of FBC I couldn't agree more, which is why I brought it up as an alternative mention. As much as I dislike the organization you can indeed say for them that they make the area look prettier.

I have said before and will say it again...tear them down! Until those old decrepit buildings are torn down revitalization will be minuscule at best

the oracle wrote:

first. i think the charter school is only one part of a much larger long term plan.

second. obviously in itself the charter school wont revitalize the downtown area. however it will add a lot of traffic in the area. probably 400 cars immediately...and 700 in 4 years when it is fully in use. that will leave opportunities for some small businesses to open or expand.

combined with the hospital. the fed building, a potential city hall. and some type of anchor store. all of the sudden you have the makings of the beginnings of a change downtown.

Exactly! By government taking the first step with the school,it provides a foundation for the private sector to build on.

Are they getting rid of the "Goody Shop"? Just wondering.

What are the long-term plans that justify tearing down old buildings. I mean, is there for certain a plan in place that will cause investors to invest, if you tear down the buildings? Or, does it work the other way around...they provide the business plan, then you tear the buildings down.

I agree with the concept of trying to revitalize downtown Hammond. In its preppier days, ('70s), it was a weekly trip to Goldblatt's for food for a family of seven for us...on a mini-budget...going to Penny's, Mida's, but can it really go back to those good old days?

The buildings there, some are so beautiful, and I always wondered why they remained empty. Is Mayor McDermott working on attracting more than just retail? We have such some good land to offer to attract industrial parks and that, to me, would be a better start. It would be great if Mayor McDermott, as County Chairman, could broker deals to land more industry (considering we have lower taxes here), and tie it in with Gary, being a cargo/transportation depot.

How much work is being done behind the scenes in promoting and enticing big businesses to re-locate to Indiana, vs. Will County, or Bolingbrook, where you can see industrial parks all over. It's Illinois, so why are they willing to transfer there, when Hammond can offer cheaper land, taxes, and couple it with a cargo/railroad/airport that is available?

Crook County claims they are losing businesses left and right (from Indiana to outside counties). What is being done to attract industrial parks, which would provide more jobs, more revenue?

Charter school is not going to bring in that necessary revenue. I do hope it succeeds the way Artie pictures it. It's a start of something better than nothing, but to me, we should be shooting for bigger fish that would make an immediate impact.

Back to the Goody Store...is that going to be forced out of business? They've been there quite awhile. The way I perceive it, it was ok all along, until someone says they have to go, because they are planting young kids around that area. Doesn't seem fair, if that is the case, because the city allowed it for how many years, and obviously didn't mind it up until now.

Lot's of questions...but I am kind of baffled. I don't understand why Hammond residents, not to mention the city, did not bring attention to the fact that the state contracted with the hotel, and wasn't a problem until now. Seems like once it was discovered, it is now wrong. I'm just trying to understand.

Furthermore what locations are on that list? Is there any in Munster or Griffith? How about Crown Point itself? Or are they sending them to the " Big Three" Gary, EC and HAmmond? This is the question that needs to be answered...IMO!

Artie60438 wrote:

the oracle wrote:

first. i think the charter school is only one part of a much larger long term plan.

second. obviously in itself the charter school wont revitalize the downtown area. however it will add a lot of traffic in the area. probably 400 cars immediately...and 700 in 4 years when it is fully in use. that will leave opportunities for some small businesses to open or expand.

combined with the hospital. the fed building, a potential city hall. and some type of anchor store. all of the sudden you have the makings of the beginnings of a change downtown.

Exactly! By government taking the first step with the school,it provides a foundation for the private sector to build on.

Are you referring to something besides the school location or something more broad? I'm not sure what private sector boom you are expecting since we are in a recession and the demand isn't there at that location. And let's not forget who will be eating the demo costs either way.

I'm not sure downtown is quite as lucrative as the rosy picture you hope to paint because retail has moved east and as I mentioned traffic flow is a major concern not so easily remedied. Back in the day when there were few cars and people rode the bus downtown this was not an issue. Today it is a critical issue for any serious consideration of re-gentrification.

The 1 hinderance that was out of our hands was all the strip clubs on the IL side of State Line but Cal City did make some improvement there which by coincidence benefited us as well. Although I suppose one could argue it also took some demand from those patrons away from the general area too, but I'm not losing much sleep over that.

first the downtown plan isnt secretive at all. the mayor has spoken about it almost monthly at his mayors nights. there are ongoing quarterly meetings about it in the downtown area. and his radio show regularly discusses the various aspects of it.

i think we can all agree that the first step is cleaning up the problems that currently exist there. and that is difficult when you have some building and business owners that make money from government (state and fed) catering to vagrants, and refuse to change. however i believe once they are shown an alternative way to do business and survive, that this will gradually change.

but one thing certainly wont work. investing nothing, and simply sitting by and complaining is a certain loser.

as for some of the road problems. no disagreement there. but its virtually impossible to correct without 10's of millions of dollars. and honestly i think traffic demand would have to pick way up before anyone would want to think about that kind of investment to change some angles on a road. however if you up that traffic flow, than federal dollars for just such a fix may eventually be possible.

Passion wrote:

Artie60438 wrote:

Exactly! By government taking the first step with the school,it provides a foundation for the private sector to build on.

Are you referring to something besides the school location or something more broad? I'm not sure what private sector boom you are expecting since we are in a recession and the demand isn't there at that location. And let's not forget who will be eating the demo costs either way.

By the time the school is actually built and functioning the recession will be behind us.

Quote :

I'm not sure downtown is quite as lucrative as the rosy picture you hope to paint because retail has moved east and as I mentioned traffic flow is a major concern not so easily remedied. Back in the day when there were few cars and people rode the bus downtown this was not an issue. Today it is a critical issue for any serious consideration of re-gentrification.

I don't think that the Downtown will return to it's glory days like the old pictures I've seen,but I do think there is a whole lot of room for improvement and that school will be a starting point. This is a case where Government must take the initial steps because the private sector won't, until they see something positive.

Artie60438 wrote:

By the time the school is actually built and functioning the recession will be behind us.

...and we'll be paying for all of the Monopoly Money that Mao-bama has been printing and spending...

There seems to be some confusion here between revitalizing downtown and the charter school. I need only point to the number of failed businesses around Hammond High through the years to show that a high school probably isn't an economic engine for the surrounding area. I can't recall any businesses being near Gavit and maybe 1 or 2 stores near Clark. True, a school would be putting something live in the space but I don't see where it is positive for the economy.

As for the recession being over I wouldn't put money on it. More than that, if the President starts to make good on some of his campaign promises such as stopping sandy oil reclamation the local economy might wind up worse than the national trend.

But it looks like the focus here is being lead off track. If there were any economic benefit to a competing school system it should just be a nice bonus, not a primary goal. The goal is to best educate the kids at a reasonable cost. By framing the issue in economic impact terms you diminish focus on the educational value of the school systems.

If all this charter school will accomplish is to avoid the issue of private school vouchers and provide a taxpayer funded alternative for the best students while the rest of the kids get sucked down the rat hole in the other school system that is not a good thing. As I stated above I think it's a better bang for the buck to move the problem kids than to abandon the kids stuck in the middle.

school is still a year away. and with the offenders booted out of the lasalle. its already begun to improve the downtown area

the oracle wrote:

school is still a year away. and with the offenders booted out of the lasalle. its already begun to improve the downtown area

But, you're not directly answering us posters on specific questions.

I particularly want to know about the "Goody" store. Passion brought up some significant points, yet you keep dancing around the issues, not answering our direct questions.

Booting out the offenders from the downtown area, is one thing. What other part of Hammond are they going to now relocate to with such short notice? Am I wrong to assume the state has another place in mind? And, I do subscribe to www.familywatchdog.com. The problem doesn't go away with the LaSalle Hotel. There are known drug addicts that live there, that are not sexual offenders, so Steve, don't get so excited.

Just tell us the truth.