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 The Science of Torture

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Heretic

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PostSubject: The Science of Torture   9/28/2009, 9:49 am

...and why it doesn't work.

Quote :
Waterboarding Doesn’t Work, Scientists Say

Severe interrogation techniques like waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions and the exploitation of phobias aren’t just morally reprehensible, they’re based on bad science, destroying the very memories they’re supposed to recover.

“There is a vast literature on the effects of extreme stress on motivation, mood and memory, using both animals and humans,” writes Shane O’Mara, a stress researcher at Ireland’s Trinity College Institute of Neuroscience. “These techniques cause severe, repeated and prolonged stress, which compromises brain tissue supporting memory and executive function.”
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   5/2/2012, 9:43 am

And now we know for sure:

Quote :
Exclusive: Senate probe finds little evidence of effective "torture"

A nearly three-year-long investigation by Senate Intelligence Committee Democrats is expected to find there is little evidence the harsh "enhanced interrogation techniques" the CIA used on high-value prisoners produced counter-terrorism breakthroughs.

People familiar with the inquiry said committee investigators, who have been poring over records from the administration of President George W. Bush, believe they do not substantiate claims by some Bush supporters that the harsh interrogations led to counter-terrorism coups.

The backers of such techniques, which include "water-boarding," sleep deprivation and other practices critics call torture, maintain they have led to the disruption of major terror plots and the capture of al Qaeda leaders.

One official said investigators found "no evidence" such enhanced interrogations played "any significant role" in the years-long intelligence operations which led to the discovery and killing of Osama bin Laden last May by U.S. Navy SEALs.

Echoing what military officials and the interrogators themselves have been telling us for years.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   5/2/2012, 1:58 pm

Did you happen to see 60 Minutes lst week? The guy in charge of the torture was interviewed. It was very disturbing to say the least.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 12:12 pm

It’s refreshing to see that your president, he of the pure and lily-white hands (figuratively, of course), is finally forced to admit that he used those hands to utilize and take advantage of torture in order to pull off the high point of his presidency – the killing of bin-Laden.
Oh, my.




http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/secretary-of-defense-panetta-admits-information-from-waterboarding-led-us-to-bin-laden-video/

Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Information from Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden


Posted by Jim Hoft on Sunday, February 3, 2013, 8:56 AM


Yes, waterboarding worked.
Today on Meet the Press Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him.
“The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”
This was not the first time Panetta admitted that enhanced interrogation techniques led the US to Bin Laden. He made similar comments back in May 2011.

………

Obama CIA chief admitted today that intelligence gleaned from enhanced interrogating techniques led the US to Osama Bin Laden.
Today reported:
Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 1:37 pm

happy jack wrote:
It’s refreshing to see that your president, he of the pure and lily-white hands (figuratively, of course), is finally forced to admit that he used those hands to utilize and take advantage of torture in order to pull off the high point of his presidency – the killing of bin-Laden.
Oh, my.
[/i]
Oh,my indeed Razz
Jim Hoft Flat Out Lies About Panetta and “Waterboarding,” Gets a Drudge Link
Quote :
Dishonesty rewarded by wingnut welfare

The Dumbest Man on the Internet resorts to a flat out lie today, and is rewarded with a headline link at Drudge Report: Defense Secretary Panetta Admits Information From Waterboarding Led US to Bin Laden (Video) | the Gateway Pundit.

Quote :
Yes, waterboarding worked.
Today on Meet the Press Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him.

“The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”

Jim Hoft is such an amazing dimwit that he actually includes the quote that exposes his own brazen lies.

First, Panetta did not even use the word “waterboarding,” and he certainly did not say that information from waterboarding “led to bin Laden.” Hoft simply made that up out of nothing. Panetta specifically said that most of the intelligence that led to bin Laden was put together without using torture.

Second, Panetta’s very next sentence, after the section that Hoft clipped for his misleading video, was:

Quote :
I think we could have gotten bin Laden without that.

This is an absolutely blatant, in your face example of how the right wing blogs tell each other lies, circulate them, and turn them into unquestionable articles of faith. It’s a microcosm of the reality-denying reactionary sickness at the heart of the conservative movement.

Here’s the clip from NBC of Panetta’s actual statement, including the critical sentence that Hoft edited out.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy


Quote :
The Dumbest Man on the Internet resorts to a flat out lie today, and is rewarded with a headline link at Drudge Report:
And the dumbest poster on this message board swallows it hook,line,and sinker,the doubles down on it by making up another bald faced lie claiming the POTOS admitted to it despite the fact that POTUS was never even mentioned in the article or the attached video clip!
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 1:54 pm

I don't know or care what someone named Jim Hoft said; I don't even know who he is.
I am concerned only with what Leon Panetta said, which was:


“Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used.”



No matter how you read this statement, it clearly means that some of the information vital to the killing of bin-Laden was derived through torture.
Did our president rule as inadmissible any of the information derived through torture?
Not to my knowledge.
Did our president avail himself of the information derived through torture in order to facilitate the mission?
Clearly, yes.
Does that mean that our president was complicit in the use of torture in order to carry out his administration’s crowning achievement?
No matter which way you look at it, the answer is a resounding yes.
If Obama is to take credit for the killing of bin-Laden, then he must also take full responsibility for the manner in which the mission was carried out.
You cannot have it both ways.
I realize that it makes you uncomfortable, but there it is, in black and white.
But for now, the chili is hot, the Corona is cold, and a Super Bowl party awaits.
Ta.
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 2:02 pm

happy jack wrote:
I don't know or care what someone named Jim Hoft said; I don't even know who he is.
Yet you posted his lies,right?
Guess what? Shocked That entire link completely disappeared from Drudge's page. Gee,I wonder why? lol! Sleep
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 2:19 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
I don't know or care what someone named Jim Hoft said; I don't even know who he is.
Yet you posted his lies,right?
Guess what? Shocked That entire link completely disappeared from Drudge's page. Gee,I wonder why? lol! Sleep



I am concerned with only one statement out of that entire link, and it was not a statement by Hoft – it was a statement by Panetta:

“Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used.”

Are you disputing that this is what Panetta actually said?
If you don't believe the statement merely because it was in Hoft's link, then try this one on for size:


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57567347-10391739/panetta-enhanced-interrogation-did-not-lead-to-bin-laden/

"Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used," he admitted.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/05/04/what_panetta_said_about_waterboarding.html

PANETTA: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether-- whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always gonna be an open question.

An "open question".
Which means that he does not know if the 'let's-ask-them-nicely' method would have worked.


Last edited by happy jack on 2/3/2013, 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 2:31 pm

Try this on for size?

"Panetta: Enhanced interrogation did not lead to bin Laden"

No problem
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 2:34 pm

edge540 wrote:
Try this on for size?

"Panetta: Enhanced interrogation did not lead to bin Laden"

No problem

See my previous post.
No problem.
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 2:40 pm

happy jack wrote:
edge540 wrote:
Try this on for size?

"Panetta: Enhanced interrogation did not lead to bin Laden"

No problem

See my previous post.
No problem.

Why? What for?
I don't see anything saying that the intel that led to getting binladen was the result of waterboarding, do you?

Don't see it here either:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/us/politics/04torture.html?_r=0

As a matter of fact waterboarding led to bullshit:

Quote :
But two prisoners who underwent some of the harshest treatment — including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times — repeatedly misled their interrogators about the courier’s identity.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 3:08 pm

edge540 wrote:
I don't see anything saying that the intel that led to getting binladen was the result of waterboarding, do you?


http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid


WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Rolling Eyes
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 3:29 pm

Republican Senator John McCain, in a Washington Post opinion piece, disputed Mukasey's account, saying:

I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed's real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda. In fact, the use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques' on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti's real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.- wiki
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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 3:43 pm

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy


White House deputy national security advisor John Brennan Tuesday knocked down the myth that waterboarding provided crucial intelligence that led to the location of Osama bin Laden.

“So we’ve been talking about the different details and methods that lead up to this moment, and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or role in actually getting the information,” MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski told Brennan. “Is that the case?”

“Not to my knowledge,” Brennan explained.

“The information that was acquired over the course of nine years or so came from many different sources, human sources, technical sources, as well as information that detainees provided, and it was something that as a result of the painstaking work that the analysts did, they pieced it all together that led us to the Abbottabad compound and led us to the successful operation on sunday,” he added.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/3/2013, 10:13 pm

I’ll see your one senator’s opinion ….

edge540 wrote:
Republican Senator John McCain, in a Washington Post opinion piece ....



…. and I’ll see your deputy national security advisor’s clear lack of anything resembling first-hand knowledge or certainty ….

edge540 wrote:

“Not to my knowledge,” Brennan explained.



…. and I’ll raise you one straightforward statement from the head of the CIA, a man who just might know a little bit about these things.

http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid


WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Rolling Eyes


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edge540

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/4/2013, 8:22 am

Sorry jack, Leon Panetta's "first-hand knowledge or certainty" is not any more credible than John McCain's, Donald Rumsfeld's , or Diane Fienstein's, chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, "first-hand knowledge or certainty."

RUMSFELD: NO WATERBOARDING LEADING TO COURIER; TIMELINE DOESN’T MATCH UP
http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/05/02/rumsfeld-no-waterboarding-leading-to-courier-timeline-doesn%E2%80%99t-match-up/

Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/senate-intel-chair-torture-did-not-lead-to-bin-laden-in-any-way.php

jack, here's the guy that actually HAS "first-hand knowledge or certainty,"
ex-FBI Interrogator Ali Soufan. He was actually there, Leon was not.

Did Waterboarding Lead to Bin Laden’s Lair? Ex-FBI Specialist Says ‘No Way’
Quote :
“It is pathetic,” he says. “This case is the biggest proof that waterboarding and enhanced interrogation techniques did not work at all. And I saw it firsthand. It actually delayed the hunt for bin Laden. A name of his courier came up in 2002, before Khalid Sheik Muhammad was arrested. He knew everything about the guy, and he lied about it! If waterboarding worked, KSM would have said the guy’s real name back in March 2003.”

Pathetic indeed.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/05/did_waterboarding_lead_to_bin.html

jack, if you want to believe the bullshit that torture works, that's fine, wouldn't be the first time that a conservative is gullible enough to fall for it.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/4/2013, 10:32 am

edge540 wrote:
Sorry jack, Leon Panetta's "first-hand knowledge or certainty" is not any more credible than John McCain's, Donald Rumsfeld's , or Diane Fienstein's, chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, "first-hand knowledge or certainty."

RUMSFELD: NO WATERBOARDING LEADING TO COURIER; TIMELINE DOESN’T MATCH UP
http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/05/02/rumsfeld-no-waterboarding-leading-to-courier-timeline-doesn%E2%80%99t-match-up/

Senate Intel Chair: Torture Did Not Lead To Bin Laden In Any Way
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/senate-intel-chair-torture-did-not-lead-to-bin-laden-in-any-way.php

jack, here's the guy that actually HAS "first-hand knowledge or certainty,"
ex-FBI Interrogator Ali Soufan. He was actually there, Leon was not.

Did Waterboarding Lead to Bin Laden’s Lair? Ex-FBI Specialist Says ‘No Way’
Quote :
“It is pathetic,” he says. “This case is the biggest proof that waterboarding and enhanced interrogation techniques did not work at all. And I saw it firsthand. It actually delayed the hunt for bin Laden. A name of his courier came up in 2002, before Khalid Sheik Muhammad was arrested. He knew everything about the guy, and he lied about it! If waterboarding worked, KSM would have said the guy’s real name back in March 2003.”

Pathetic indeed.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/05/did_waterboarding_lead_to_bin.html

jack, if you want to believe the bullshit that torture works, that's fine, wouldn't be the first time that a conservative is gullible enough to fall for it.



So your president appointed Panetta to be the head of the CIA, stood by and watched as Panetta clearly demonstrated that he was a big fucking liar and, based upon that, subsequently promoted him to Secretary of Defense?
Sounds like a bit of poor judgment on Barry's part, doesn't it?
Wouldn't you think that he'd prefer a Secretary of Defense who spoke the truth?


Last edited by happy jack on 2/4/2013, 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/4/2013, 10:59 am

edge540 wrote:

jack, if you want to believe the bullshit that torture works, that's fine, wouldn't be the first time that a conservative is gullible enough to fall for it.
Another case of Drudge blowing the dog whistle and uninformed wingnuts immediately start grabbing their pitchforks and torches. However this particular fake outrage was so ridiculous that even Drudge took down the link. Only the most gullible are still beating the drum.

It's a shame that the righties just can't get over the fact that Obama eliminated Osama.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/4/2013, 11:22 am

Artie60438 wrote:
edge540 wrote:

jack, if you want to believe the bullshit that torture works, that's fine, wouldn't be the first time that a conservative is gullible enough to fall for it.
Another case of Drudge blowing the dog whistle and uninformed wingnuts immediately start grabbing their pitchforks and torches. However this particular fake outrage was so ridiculous that even Drudge took down the link. Only the most gullible are still beating the drum.

It's a shame that the righties just can't get over the fact that Obama eliminated Osama.



You seem positively delighted that Drudge took that link down.
Any idea why NBC has yet to take this one down?
And any thoughts as to why Barry would allow such tainted information to be used in order to carry out his crowning achievement?


http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid


WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


Rolling Eyes
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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/4/2013, 11:41 am

This isn't anything we didn't know several years ago:

Quote :
Last week, Senator McCain published a widely discussed Op ed in the Washington Post calling into question claims that torture was instrumental in tracking down Bin Laden. McCain cited Panetta as a source for his information, but didn't release any material provided to him by Panetta, and conservatives like former Bush attorney general Michael Mukasey subsequently dismissed McCain’s account. The CIA has not publicly taken sides in the dispute.

But Panetta’s letter, dated May 9th, bears out McCain’s version of events.

. . .

The case being made by conservatives — that Bin Laden’s death vindicates torture — was spelled out last week by former Bush AG Mukasey in an Op ed in the Wall Street Journal. Mukasey argued that the trail to Bin Laden “began with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who broke like a dam under the pressure of harsh interrogation techniques that included waterboarding. He loosed a torrent of information — including eventually the nickname of a trusted courier of bin Laden.”

The account in Panetta’s letter clearly contradicts this. Here are the operative three paragraphs from the letter, which represents a response from Panetta to McCain’s earlier request for information about torture and Bin Laden’s death:

Quote :
Nearly 10 years of intensive intelligence work led the CIA to conclude that Bin Ladin was likely hiding at the compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. there was no one “essential and indispensible” key piece of information that led us to this conclusion. Rather, the intelligence picture was developed via painstaking collection and analysis. Multiple streams of intelligence — including from detainees, but also from multiple other sources — led CIA analysts to conclude that Bin Ladin was at this compound. Some of the detainees who provided useful information about the facilitator/courier’s role had been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques. Whether those techniques were the “only timely and effective way” to obtain such information is a matter of debate and cannot be established definitively. What is definitive is that that information was only a part of multiple streams of intelligence that led us to Bin Ladin.

Let me further point out that we first learned about the facilitator/courier’s nom de guerre from a detainee not in CIA custody in 2002. It is also important to note that some detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques attempted to provide false or misleading information about the facilitator/courier. These attempts to falsify the facilitator/courier’s role were alerting.

In the end, no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier’s full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means.

Emphasis mine. Panetta’s account contradicts Mukasey’s claim that the trail to Bin Laden “began” with disclosures from Khalid Sheikh Muhammed that were achieved through the “pressure" of torture.

Panetta’s account also represents public, on-the-record confirmation from the CIA of — and adds new detail to — a careful and thorough investigation by Scott Shane and Charlie Savage of the New York Times, which was based on anonymous sources and concluded that torture “played a small role at most in identifying Bin Laden’s trusted courier and exposing his hide-out.” Shane and Savage also quoted unnamed sources claiming torture resulted in bad information — also confirmed in Panetta’s letter.

Conservatives will argue that little is known about the “other intelligence means” used to secure the courier’s name or whereabouts. They will also point out that Panetta’s letter also indicates that some detainees who “provided useful information about the facilitator/courier’s role” had been subjected to torture. In saying this, Panetta is expanding on an earlier claim in an interview that torture, waterboarding included, produced info that played some kind of role at some point in tracking Bin Laden.

Must be a slow news day. And in addition to all the false information that hindered the investigation, let's not forget that torture's role in getting us into the Iraq War:

Quote :
The best refutation of Dick Cheney’s insistence that torture was necessary and useful in dealing with threats from al-Qaeda just died in a Libyan prison. . . .

Al-Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi was captured trying to escape from Afghanistan in late 2001. He was sent to Egypt to be tortured, and under duress alleged that Saddam Hussein was training al-Qaeda agents in chemical weapons techniques. It was a total crock, and alleged solely to escape further pain. Al-Libi disavowed the allegation when he was returned to CIA custody. But Cheney and Condi Rice ran with the single-source, torture-induced assertion and it was inserted by Scooter Libby in Colin Powell’s infamous speech to the United Nations.

If torture can mislead you into launching a war that results in hundreds of thousands of deaths, then it should be avoided, quite apart from the fact that it is illegal and that the United States is signatory to binding treaties specifying its illegality. (It is coming out that Bush-Cheney’s own CIA Inspector-General expressed the view that the Bush-era torture was medically unsound, did not produce the desired results, and contravened the UN Convention against torture.

Here is what Condi Rice told the Lehrer News Hour in 2002, based on the torture-induced statements of the late al-Libi:

Quote :
‘ “We clearly know that there were in the past and have been contacts between senior Iraqi officials and members of Al Qaeda going back for actually quite a long time,” Rice said. “We know too that several of the [Al Qaeda] detainees, in particular some high-ranking detainees, have said that Iraq provided some training to Al Qaeda in chemical weapons development.” ‘

In my book, Napoleon’s Egypt: Invading the Middle East, I note that Gen. Bonaparte forbade the use of torture by French military interrogators in Cairo, on the grounds that it produced too much misinformation. Napoleon was not exactly squeamish. And even he would have been ashamed of the crew we had in Washington before last January.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/5/2013, 10:39 am

That still leaves us with this ....


Heretic wrote:
Multiple streams of intelligence — including from detainees, but also from multiple other sources — led CIA analysts to conclude that Bin Ladin was at this compound. Some of the detainees who provided useful information about the facilitator/courier’s role had been subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques. Whether those techniques were the “only timely and effective way” to obtain such information is a matter of debate and cannot be established definitively. What is definitive is that that information was only a part of multiple streams of intelligence that led us to Bin Ladin.





.... and this ....


http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid


WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.


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Heretic

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/5/2013, 12:53 pm

And again...

I wrote:
This isn't anything we didn't know several years ago
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Artie60438

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/5/2013, 3:30 pm

happy jack wrote:
It’s refreshing to see that your president, he of the pure and lily-white hands (figuratively, of course), is finally forced to admit that he used those hands to utilize and take advantage of torture in order to pull off the high point of his presidency – the killing of bin-Laden.
Oh, my.
"finally forced to admit"?


May 4,2011
Quote :
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Wednesday that locating bin Laden required years of painstaking work that eventually led to discovery of the address of the Pakistan compound last August.

Quote :
"I can say with certainty that no single piece of information, with the exception of the address of the compound, was ... singularly vital to this, because we're talking about tiny bits of information that were compiled by unbelievably competent professionals over nine and a half years," Carney said. "And it's impossible to know if one piece of information came from one source and was corroborated in another way; if, you know which thread held the cloth together, with the exception of the location of the compound."
Carney acknowledged that some information came from terrorism detainees, which he called one of many ways that information was gathered.

Quote :
"Now, I can't categorically rule out that one piece of information" played a key role, "because we don't know," Carney said.
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/5/2013, 4:15 pm

Heretic wrote:
And again...

I wrote:
This isn't anything we didn't know several years ago

This coming from someone who just brought up Dick Cheney in a recent post.
More than a couple years ago, wasn't it?

Laughing
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happy jack

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PostSubject: Re: The Science of Torture   2/5/2013, 4:17 pm

Artie60438 wrote:
happy jack wrote:
It’s refreshing to see that your president, he of the pure and lily-white hands (figuratively, of course), is finally forced to admit that he used those hands to utilize and take advantage of torture in order to pull off the high point of his presidency – the killing of bin-Laden.
Oh, my.
"finally forced to admit"?


May 4,2011
Quote :
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Wednesday that locating bin Laden required years of painstaking work that eventually led to discovery of the address of the Pakistan compound last August.

Quote :
"I can say with certainty that no single piece of information, with the exception of the address of the compound, was ... singularly vital to this, because we're talking about tiny bits of information that were compiled by unbelievably competent professionals over nine and a half years," Carney said. "And it's impossible to know if one piece of information came from one source and was corroborated in another way; if, you know which thread held the cloth together, with the exception of the location of the compound."
Carney acknowledged that some information came from terrorism detainees, which he called one of many ways that information was gathered.

Quote :
"Now, I can't categorically rule out that one piece of information" played a key role, "because we don't know," Carney said.



But what of this?

http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid

WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

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